Today our local paper here in Paisley (The Paisley Daily Express) printed a front page story in large print about me: it included a picture. Readers of this blog will know that a couple of weeks ago there was a rash of comments flying around the blogosphere claiming to be from me: some even carried my picture. These comments alleging to be from me were of a vile anti Semitic nature: their first destination was the Guardian’s web page who quickly issued me with an apology and took the comments down when I contacted them: a couple of other sites though despite knowing that I did not write the comments continued to print them and the abusive remarks about me which they received as a result of them. It may not be a surprise to you to know that the sites I refer to are right wing extremist Zionist blogs: at this point the picture begins to focus a bit: it would seem that someone has caught on to the fact that I am a supporter of Palestinian rights and am opposed to the State of Israel in the middle East conflict.
On trusted advice I decided to ride out the storm as it showed signs of dying down which indeed it did: just as things were almost back to normal I was contacted by the PDE who said that they had received a complaint or complaints (I’m not sure which) accusing me of stirring up hatred against Jews. At this juncture I contacted the police who are now investigating all this and treating it as a criminal investigation: needless to say all those involved are hiding behind anonymity except perhaps one: about whom more later: the Guardian and the blogs refuse to disclose who wrote the comments so think about that dear reader: anyone can write to these blogs and say anything about you: even pretend to be you and they will and can refuse to tell you who is doing it.
The people doing this and trying to damage me have found me guilty of something and it’s not anti Semitism: that suggestion predictably did not run: it was treated as I thought it would be with derision by all those who know me and my past record. No: what they have found me guilty of is supporting the Palestinians and condemning the State of Israel in the Middle East conflict: that phrase slips off my tongue very easily because I have been very careful over the years to always differentiate between the State of Israel and Jews: I am not alone in this: these people reserve their most vitriolic poison for Jews who oppose Israel’s actions: they scream anti Semite at me and a whole lot worse at them, their fellow Jews who disagree with them and Israel.
The PDE quotes someone called Ruth Renwick as writing the email complaining about me: I wrote a passage calling on a boycott of Israel to make them act in a decent way toward the Palestinians: I referred to their treatment under the Nazis and regretted that the sympathy which rightly flowed toward the Jews because of these atrocities was evaporating because of the behaviour of Israel. I have stated in other posts that this is a tragedy and that Jews were suffering because of Israel’s actions: a great many Jews are opposed to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians and the Zionists hate them for that. If Ms. Renwick reads this and I hope she does I remind her that the boycott which me and millions of others supported against Apartheid South Africa was right and just and eventually successful: I am: along with many others calling for the same thing against Israel and that is not as she hints an incitement of hatred against the Jewish People: the very idea makes me sick. Perhaps she will engage with me in a discussion about this and try to clear the matter up: that would only be possible however if she does not consider opposition to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians to be anti Semitic. A failure to differentiate between the two would render a discussion worthless, it’s up to her.
Tuesday, February 09, 2010
DOES BEING AN OPPONENT OF ISRAEL AND A SUPPORTER OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS MAKE A PERSON ANTI SEMITIC ?
Posted by Cllr Terry Kelly at Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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"anyone can write to these blogs and say anything about you: even pretend to be you and they will and can refuse to tell you who is doing it"
Priceless Terry absolutely priceless"
All the abuse you print about other (SNP) councillors, all anonymous. You just dont see yourself do you?
thats right Terry you brought down apartheid.
go on hunger strike did you?
Keyboard them to death?
Wear ANC pyjamas in bed?
Refuse to buy South African oranges.
You are a fantasist.
As nasty as this is for you Terry - now you know what it is like to be accused of something you have not done. You have allowed people to post accusations and comments about some of your colleagues without knowing if they were true or not. Perhaps they were doing what you have been doing - riding it out and hoping the accusers go away. A fair suggestion I would think and good advice as you know too well how difficult and expensive it is to take legal action against anyone or to have blog sites closed down.
I am sorry for you but feel that perhaps now you will think again when allowing vile, untrue or hurtful comments to be posted about other people.
Oh dear Mr Kelly! Methinks you are treating the police and the public as stupid and gullible with regards to this matter.
Someone highlighted the Harrys Place blog on my site at Paisley Expressions in relation to your comments (it is still there) and I cannot help but agree with the comments there that your comments and what you say is someone impersonating you is too similar.
Why would anybody want to impersonate you. You have only reported this to the police now knowing that they are going to say that it is not in the public interest to investigate this - You are only worried about your position as a councillor, nothing else.
Typical neo-con tactics much favoured by those of that ilk who favour/apologise for US and Israeli foreign policy.
In my experience it is always, criticise Israel makes you a Jew-hater. Same with the US makes you anti-American. Thus your valid opinion becomes null and void simply because of where they have put you.
Their actions simply cannot bear the scrutiny, hence the vitriol.
Show me where I have printed anything remotely like this about anyone: where I have impersonated anyone and printed such filth, you are a liar.
Millions of people brought down apartheid and I am proud that I played a part however small, attacks don’t get much weaker than this.
Give some examples of any time I have ever done anything remotely like this: anytime I have ever impersonated anyone in such a way: there is a world of difference between what goes on in my blog and this kind of poisonous filth: the fact that you see fit to make a comparison says all there is to say about you and people like you: you should smarten up and join the human race.
“I cannot help but agree with the comments there that your comments and what you say is someone impersonating you is too similar”
Having read you blog Billy it comes as no surprise that you are unable to spot the difference between the impersonators and me.
“Why would anybody want to impersonate you”
It relates to the Middle East Conflict Billy: nothing to do I’m afraid with the Renfrewshire SNP so you wouldn’t understand would you?
You are correct and I believe that screaming anti Semite at anyone who opposes Israel is beginning to wearing very thin.
Oh do 'get over yourself' Terry.
There's a bit of advice that you should think about.
You and your supposed slights are not important.
Have a wee sleep and in the morning they will all be gone!
How come if you are such a threat to the state of Israel, MOSSAD have not demolished your house with a JCB?
Maybe they have had a look at it and thought it had already been done.
Watch out Terry you may find yourself kidnapped in a van and put on trial for crimes against humanity.
I have to say the fake comments do not appear anti-semitic to me and a good number of them seem to have been cut and pasted from your own blog -though I have only seen the Harrys Place comments and not the other websites you mention.
On Harrys Place some of the fake comments are a bit abusive towards other commentors but I wouldn't go as far as to describe them as filth.
As an aside the same thing happened to the journalist Peter Hitchens a while back.
As I recall David Irving also railed against the 'zionists' who dared call him an anti-Semite. Of course those who called him anti-Semite were absolutely right to do so, and were right not to be gulled by his angry claim that he was a victim of 'zionism.'
So to clarify, when you claim that you are not an anti-Semite and are only a victim of 'zionism' do you mean it in the David Irving sense or some other sense?
The faked comments on the Harrys Place site seem mostly to have come from your own blog.
Are you now saying you do write anti-semitic stuff?
Dear Councillor Kelly,
you complain that your critics blur criticism of 'Israel' with hostility to 'Jews' in general. Indeed you proudly state that "I have been very careful over the years to always differentiate between the State of Israel and Jews."
And yet a few sentences later you promptly repeat your own previous equation of 'Israel' and 'Jews'. Here it is in the slightly sanitised form above: "I wrote a passage calling on a boycott of Israel to make them act in a decent way toward the Palestinians: I referred to their treatment under the Nazis and regretted that the sympathy which rightly flowed toward the Jews because of these atrocities was evaporating because of the behaviour of Israel."
i.e. you want them (N.B. the Israelis, not 'Jews') to treat Palestianians decently because of their (i.e. Jews', not Israelis') treatment under the Nazis. It's clear you see 'Jew' and 'Israeli' as interchangeable. Your own syntax and the logic of your own argument, such as it is, demonstrates it here.
And here it is again in your even less palatable original quote: you said we should "
Force them to act as they once did; when their treatment under the Nazis won them the respect and affection of most of the world."
Let's just check exactly who you mean by 'them', 'they' and 'their' in that passage.
"Force them [i.e. Israelis, not Jews] to act as they [Israelis? Or Jews?] once did; when their [Jews? Or Israelis?] treatment under the Nazis won them [Ah, so you mean Jews, not Israelis] the respect and affection of most of the world."
Two instances where you have shown you struggle to get through a sentence without turning 'Israelis' into 'Jews' and vice versa.
And you of all people, Councillor Kelly, complain that it is your 'Zionist' opponents maliciously blurring the important difference between 'Israel' and 'Jews' which you are supposedly so clear about - except when it comes to typing a sentence, of course.
I agree that crying "anti semite" at anyone who opposes Israel is dull and witless, but please explain to me how shouting "zionist" at those who oppose your position is any different?
I am simply defending myself against malicious lies.
“How come if you are such a threat to the state of Israel”
You will have to ask some of the liars who are accusing me of anti Semitism that one. Your reference to the State of Israel and its habit of knocking down Palestinian houses is very accurate.
Anyone who genuinely thinks that these comments were cut and pasted from my blog is either a fool or a liar with their own agenda: that sounds like you!
I mean I am not anti Semitic: that shouldn’t be difficult to understand; unless of course you deliberately want to make it difficult?
Could these comments eminate from SNP H.Q at William Street!
I don’t mind doing this ad nauseam for you if you wish.
Anyone who genuinely thinks that these comments have been cut and pasted from my blog is either a fool or what is more likely a liar with their own agenda. You won’t win this one.
You are wasting your time Stanislaw I am not going through this again: I am not anti Semitic but you already know that don’t you? I am pro Palestine and anti Israel in the Middle East conflict and that’s what this is about right? Why can’t you tell the truth? Is it because you can’t defend the indefensible?
That’s the reason that you are prepared to sink to such depths and twist every word and tell as many lies as you do. I am happy with my position but: I know who and what I’m dealing with now and that makes it a whole lot easier.
(pete woodhouse) 11/02/10
I’m not shouting Zionist at everyone who opposes my position: I’m shouting at the liars and creeps who have been impersonating me to make me look like an anti Semite: I’m quite able and ready to argue with anyone about the Palestinian / Israeli conflict: you are doing the same as those who are guilty of this by accusing me of shouting Zionist at everyone who opposes me: that is a lie.
I have no idea where they are coming from but: I have no doubt that some of the SNP crazies who pour over my every word will be joining in.
I am neither or fool or a liar and I don't have an agenda.
The fake Cllr Kelly writes on Harrys Place 23/01/10 at 08:50pm
"Israel ignores UN resolutions every day and America and it’s friends look the other way; in fact it’s worse than that they finance them; if America told Israel to stop they would do it but; so strong is the Israeli lobby in America that they daren’t say it; war crimes are being committed by Israel and the world does nothing because of the Israeli influence on American society"
On your own blog on 26/09/2009 you write
"The simple facts are that Israel has hundreds of illegal nuclear weapons and are also in breach of many UN resolutions; in fact they actively ignore these resolutions every day and America and it’s friends look the other way; in fact it’s worse than that they finance them"
These look like very similar comments to me. Are you seriously asserting that the fake comment is vile and anti-semitic? Personally I can't see that it is. What I do see is that it closely resembles your comment. A comment is either anti-semitic or it isn't, so which is it?
On 26/01/10 you write on your blog
re the fake comments
"They were quite a way from my usual stuff but to realise that you have to compare them; some of them lifted things said by me out of context and mixed them with their own stuff written to sound like me"
Yet now you're saying the comments were vile and anti-semitic. How is it possible to lift vile and anti-semitic comments from your blog when you say you don't make vile anti-semitic comments?
As The Guardian & Scotsman comments have now been deleted we can't see what they said but the Harry's Place comments are still there. Can you identify one of the fake comments that you yourself believe is anti-semitic?
Why don’t you give some answers for a change ? did I write these comments? Can you show me any anti Semitic comments written by me ? does being anti Israel make me anti Semitic ?
You and the rest of the liars who are trying to portray me as anti Semitic will not succeed: enough people know what your vile tactics are: more and more people are seeing through you.
I’m guilty in your eyes all right but not of anti Semitism right? My crime is being pro Palestine and anti Israel: people like you will sink to any level to support Israel: to justify the unjustifiable.
You are an apologist for war crimes and there is absolutely nothing whatsoever anti Semitic about that statement.
I haven't said you are anti-semitic. You said someone posing as you was making anti semitic remarks on blogs. I reproduced one of their comments and compared it to one you had made. I then expressed the opinion that neither the real or fake comment were anti-semitic. It is you who is saying the fake comments are anti-semitic not me. I'm just baffled as to why you are saying this.
that wouldnt be gordon Brown/Tony Blairs war crimes would it? Firing missles into the heart of a city without any warning or provocation. Or are they different war crimes according to to Citizen Kelly. Labour governments have been complicit in everything you rail agaist the USA. Yet you remain a member, pay your membership and defend them at every turn. you are a phoney and a fake. Your money of the council buys your silence.
You are not winning here: I know what you and your associates are trying to do and it is typical of how you react to anyone who declares against Israel.
You will do and say anything to discredit and label people as anti Semitic because you cannot defend the Israeli actions in the Middle East.
If you visit a blog called Harry’s Place and read the comments sent in about me as well as individual articles on the net: (all anonymous of course) you will see why I’m not buying your lies.
Not only is it all orchestrated it is ham fisted and crude.
No one buys my silence: you are ignorant of how the Labour Party works. Did you know that such people as Archbishop Desmond Tutu and ex American President Jimmy Carter have described Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians as being as bad as Apartheid South Africa?
I'm not trying to win anything here. I'm not in league with anyone. You are claiming that comments made in your name that are critical of Israel are anti-semitic. I am saying they are not.
You said in an earlier post that you could understand why Laban was fooled by the comments on made in your name on The Guardian site because they'd been copied directly from your blog and taken out of context. I am saying I think the same thing has happened at Harrys Place.
So in effect you are calling me a liar, a supporter of Israeli war crimes and a fool because I agree that comments were copied from your site and do not belive that criticism of Israel is anti-semitic.
What I am trying to understand is why you were correctly, in my opinion, arguing that it's not anti-semitic to criticise Israel but now you're saying that comments critical of Israel are anti-semitic.
And the war crimes of Tony blair and the paymaster? Is the bombing of a city (Baghdad) full of civilians not a war crime?
You bend and twist your so called principles to the point of absurdity. You keep your comments on the right side of saving your council money. Faker
This is pointless: go and read Harry’s Place and CiF and you will see what has been written about me: Google Cllr. Terry. Kelly and see what anonymous people have posted on the Net. About me. It’s vicious poisonous lies from an orchestrated group of Israel supporters who do not know the meaning of truth.
“but now you're saying that comments critical of Israel are anti-semitic”
You make my case for me.
“You bend and twist your so called principles”
What would you know about principles Mr.? You come to this rather late and you assume too much: if you were a bit more diligent you would know my position on the Iraq war: and it makes your comments look naive and lazy.
Good luck with this Terry.
Politics, and it's commentary, seems to have become a playground for those inclined towards faux indignation and imagined slights with exaggerated consequences, with anonymous contributors crying foul at everything and anything.
It reminds me of the football fans who shout 90 minutes of vile obscenity then complain to the police about a player making a hand gesture...
For the record, I've never read anything from you that could be construed as anti-semetic. Your empathy for the plight of the Palestinian people is something shared by many, including a large number of Jews, and should be applauded. Your blog on the subject of the disaster appeal for Palestinians following the Israeli invasion last year - shamefully not broadcast by the BBC - inspired me to donate immediately.
Kelly @ 1.10
Councillor, I've been visiting your blog for years and I still dont know your position on the Iraq Wars.
Can we have a definitive answer?
"I referred to their treatment under the Nazis and regretted that the sympathy which rightly flowed toward the Jews because of these atrocities was evaporating because of the behaviour of Israel."
But why should sympathy for holcaust victime evaporate because of Israel? All Jews are not Israel and the holocaust occurred before the foundation of the Jewish state. The Holocaust was not a pre-emptive punishment against Jews for Israel but the end result of centuriesd of European hatyed of Jews.
Anyone who feels less sympatheic towards holocaust victims because of Israeli actions is an anti-semite. No exceptions. If you are arguing that anti-semitism is an understandable response to Israeli actions then you are condoning anti-semitism. Given your other views on race etc I don't want to believe that you are capable of this. So I urge you to clarify your position.
Do you think it is acceptable to make anti semitic remarks in response to Israeli actions?
The unfortunate position that Israel is putting Jews in appears to be worsening: there are many who will and do use their treatment of the Palestinians as an excuse to exercise their vile reactionary anti Semitism: I am at great pains to oppose this but: those who are attacking me can only see someone who is pro Palestine and anti Israel and that brings out a blind hatred which allows them to say and do anything to damage me.
If you do not know my position on the Iraq war it’s your fault and not mine.
It is a fact that the Holocaust created great sympathy for the Jews: most people probably did not analyse it as closely as you do but: you have an interest in doing that don’t you.
Some people are always looking for an opportunity to encourage anti Semitism and Israel is providing them with that opportunity.
“Do you think it is acceptable to make anti semitic remarks in response to Israeli actions?”
I don’t believe that you need to ask this and the fact that you have clearly suggests to me that you are not being truthful: you are desperately trying to create something which does not exist: it’s all quite sinister on your part.
Long time no speak. I disagree a great deal with what you say about Israel (and many other things), but I don't believe that you left those comments; it's not your M.O. Have you ever left any comments on anyone's site about anything (apart from your own)?
So for what it's worth, I believe you.
You are obviously still as sharp: I noticed that you had said as much on one of the sites; I honestly don’t remember commenting on any other site. I very rarely even read other sites although I’m doing that at the moment. Good to hear from you.
You might have noticed as well that a lot of your old advesaries, including Mr Eugenides and Clariwil, are questioning whether you wrote the posts.
This storm will blow over, but I do think you need to examine how you talk about Israel- too many of its critics do cross that line. I am a critic of Israel myself, but strenously avoid presenting Israel as some sort of unique monster. It does things wrong, but so do many other states. Highlighting anti-Semitic incidents is also a good idea, as it draws a clear line between that and a critique of Israel:
Clairwill suggested that I didn’t post on other sites but quickly added that she believed it was me so no change there then: she remains a low life liar and a twisted hateful character.
The language I use about Israel is usually provoked by seeing bull dozers knocking down people’s homes: limbless children: and small boys throwing stones at the Israeli occupier’s tanks.
I have seen examples of this and been a victim of it myself. The thing that it proves is that you are getting close to the truth. Empirical evidence and logical explanation is what the liars detest most.
There are some great explanations for their tactics around the internet, it is reassuring to read some and let others know as it takes the sting out of their tails, such as this debunking page Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html
You have my sympathies, Terry. To the others persecuting him - I hope the mounting guilt is not too much of a burden to you, but I guess it may feed your fevered venomous attacks.
(A Neutral Observer) 14/02/10
“The thing that it proves is that you are getting close to the truth”
The actions of these people would certainly suggest that I have got them on the run.
It doesn’t seem to occur to them that people following this will have them marked right away as the bad guys when they look at their tactics. If they have right on their side why do they feel it necessary to behave like this?
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