The title words are of course from the inspirational American Declaration of Independence, they might have inspired the following -
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California to the New York Island
From the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me. (Woody Guthrie)
These words are from Guthrie’s immortal song, the real ! American National Anthem, “This Land is Your Land” this great song is more pertinent today than it ever was, do the words apply to all Americans though ?
I find it impossible to believe that Barak Obama did not consider the possibility of danger to himself and his family when he decided to run for the presidency, he must have thought it over with his wife at great length. Coming from South Chicago they will know the dangers, they are clearly very courageous people, I have a large extended family in Chicago in the district of Cicero, a certain Alphonse Capone once lived there and it is still classed as an Irish/Italian neighbourhood.
Other neighbourhoods are classed as black and the racial tension is palpable, huge areas of the city are no go areas for white people, the problems of crime, drugs and violence are worse in the black areas because of the long term scourge of racism.
The red neck goons who have just been arrested for planning to assassinate Obama are unfortunately just the first, incredibly one of them gave himself the surname “ Adolf “ this strangely did not raise many fears, the mind boggles. There is a long disgraceful history of racist crime and violence against blacks in America, the fact that black Americans are no longer prepared to accept this treatment has made the situation more volatile, everyone can get easy access to firearms, the white racists are as consumed with hatred as they ever were, can the security forces protect him ?
The situation will get more tense as the election looms and he will be pilloried as no candidate has been pilloried before. We have seen the race card played here regularly by the Tories, and most people were disgusted by it, including some Tories but, what we are about to witness will make the Tories look like Quakers. Expect the pond life that is the BNP and NF to make their poisonous contribution at every opportunity from this country, they will be a grotesque sideshow, unsavoury and sickening to watch.
The Republicans will play the race card, there is no question of that, they will be much more subtle than before but if Obama shows up as the leader it will deteriorate right into the gutter. They have already attacked his wife and his black pastor as un-American, this will get worse, they have already made great play of his middle name being Hussien and published a picture of a young Obama in a turban.
McCain is a loose cannon and is capable of almost anything, he seems to change his mind like he changes his socks. Remember that this is a party who elected Nixon, Reagan and Bush Jnr. IMO that points to a party who have no moral compass whatsoever, an electorate who will vote for clowns and crooks and who will buy the corporate propaganda fed to them by their rich and powerful pay masters.
America should be and can be great and the chance to elect a black president would represent the greatest leap forward in their history, this is their chance to move their country and the world forward, a chance to let everyone know that America can change for the better, a chance to rid themselves of Bush, Cheney and the rest of the crooks and corporate gangsters who have destroyed their reputation in every corner of the world. Obama is not a worker of miracles but he represents change like no one in living memory can point to.
Can he stay alive long enough to show what he can do ?
Friday, August 29, 2008
WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
Posted by Cllr Terry Kelly at Friday, August 29, 2008
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'All men are equal.'
Presumably this excludes those who disagree with you, all of whom, according to Kelly, are guilty of either an 'ism' an 'otry.' or a 'bia.'as in 'racism' 'bigotry' or 'homophobia.'
So, let me give you the chance to use all three on me.
Racism- We are a small country, we no longer have a manufacturing base to employ immigrants and essential services are overstretched. Conclusion - We cannot take any more people
Bigotry - In the eyes of the law and my particular God we are all equal. So I find it offensive that we have an 'Association of Black Police Officrs' or black anything else. Conclusion - these people have a hidden agenda
Homophobia - I am heterosexual, but I accept that others may not be. That's alright, they might not have a choice in the matter. But when they choose to flaunt their preferences by marching through my city, in front of my children,they should understand that I and people like me are going to be mightily offended. Conclusion - Keep it private boys.
So, you are a Racist, Religious, Homophobic bigot, who would have thunk it.
I suppose it gives the dead soldiers and their families a wee beak, I’m sure if you try harder you will find others to hate as well.
Your God will, I’m sure be proud of you, I’m assuming it’s not a Christian God.
Every political party that puts up a black/asian/chinese etc. candidate where there is a large black/asian/chinese etc. electorate is playing the race card.
That would mean that the democrats are playing the race card by putting up Obama and that is c***
Remember, Councillor, it was a Labour Government who sent those soldiers out to fight an illegal war.
A Labour Prime Minister sold their lives for American dollars.
God help Labour at the next election
What does this have to do with my post ?
This was only Guthrie's view of what he believed America should be. In actuality he saw America in a very different way, most notably portrayed in the two 'lost' verses.
Was a big high wall there
That tried to stop me
A sign was painted, said 'private property'
But on the other side it didn't say nothing
That side was made for you and me
One bright sunny morning
In the shadow of the steeple
By the relief office I saw my people
As they stood hungry
I stood there wondering
If this land was made for you and me
To be fair councillor, Barak Obama is standing for a very much larger, and far more diverse, constituency than Glasgow Govan or Leicester East.
Secondly, the Democratic party hardly need to court the African American electorate who, by a large majority, usually vote for them anyway so I don't think that Barak Obama was chosen to win over the black vote.
Therefore in general terms, are you suggesting that political parties (of all hues it has to be said) do not consider colour or creed when they select a candidate for a constituency where the electorate contains a sizeable ethnic or religious minority?
Obama:"Senator McCain, do you know how many houses you own?"
McCain:"No, but I know how many brothers I have".
If, Councillor Kelly, you think that Thomas Jefferson, the slave owner who penned the "all men are created equal" preamble, meant his words to be interpreted in the universal Marxian sense (which is the meaning you doubtless take), then this academic explanation with its emphasis on historical context may enlighten you.
"WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL."
Don't use beautiful poetry that you can't possibly understand the true meaning of.
"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common except one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude" - Alexis de Tocqueville.
'What have these to do with my post.'
Simple. They are truths that the majority in this country hold to be self evident.
A further truth that Labour has forgotten - Hon Members (and Renfrew Coucillors) hold office by the grace of the electorate, and, at the moment, the electorate are mightily displeased.
Never mind the incompetent PM, even the Kelly might have time to 'pursue other interests,' come the next election
As McNasty says, all men/women are equal. But that's as far as I agree with his flat earth society views.
Good blog councillor.
Why won't you publish my post and my question about the impending by-election in your ward.
Are you just a big scaredy cat.
(tartan army 2222) 29/08/08
There are no lost verses to this song, it has become so popular that hundreds of people have been adding to it for years.
Guthrie had a vision of what America should be but this song is first and foremost a call to arms.
I’m saying that the Democrats are clearly not playing any race card, to do so would mean a white candidate.
As for choosing candidates I can’t speak for other parties but over around 40 yrs. In the labour Party I have no knowledge of that, candidates are all chosen by the same method, the Tories are still tainted with racists but they have improved since the dark days of 'Smethwick'
My knowledge of the SNP is that they are capable of anything.
And your point is caller ?
I’m aware of the context but Jefferson who was a brilliant man and a slave owner did not make these remarks lightly, if indeed he did make them.
I see no reason why people can’t refer to them today in a way which helps what they want to express, if that wasn’t permitted we would have to burn lots of statements and books starting with the bible.
M.L. King got there before me.
“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal”
How are you on burning books by the way ?
Try Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Gramski, etc. etc. you should have heard my old man on Capitalism, I wonder if the inmates of Guantanamo who have been held for 5 tears without charge have read Alex de Tocqueville.
Perhaps if I don’t understand the meaning of beautiful poetry you could explain it to me.
“Always carry a trumpet with you in case you run into a parade” - Terry Kelly.
Clearly a razor sharp political brain at work here, I would stay anonymous if I were you.
A man with some sense at last, thank you.
Give me a clue what you are talking about and I will do my best. Are you the same Patrick ? Is this what you are reduced to ?
"Try Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Gramski, etc. etc."
Correct - the point is that if someone tried to claim that, say, Marx was a Thatcherite, and quoted the Communist Manifesto as evidence, they would quite rightly be derided.
What I was trying to explain was that you are twisting Jefferson's words to suit your own socialist agenda, when the man was clearly anything but.
"There are no lost verses to this song, it has become so popular that hundreds of people have been adding to it for years."
Rubbish. Guthrie wrote these two verses and his original lyric sheet is in Klein's 'Woody Guthrie: A Life' (his original title being 'God Blessed America For Me'). Pretty much every verse you hear of this song was written by Guthrie.
"Guthrie had a vision of what America should be but this song is first and foremost a call to arms."
Quote the line in the song that makes it a 'call to arms' What utter tosh. He did write songs that could be described as 'calls to arms' - this isn't one.
Despite Guthrie's flaws, and he had many, his vision of what America should be was a great one. It was the very antithesis of today's corruption and greed. Had he been Scottish I'm certain he would be spinning in his grave at the antics of the 'Scottish' Labour Party.
The Americans should give up on this Independence nonsense, and let themselves be ruled once again by us here in good old England. Gordon Brown is the man to sort out the US economic mess. You Scotties should give up this independence / devolution stuff and hand all the power back to London. The Scots and the Americans are too poor and too stupid to run their own affairs.
You know it makes sense.
Me, a 'Flat Earther' bigod.
Is Allan a blood relative? A long lost Love Child even?
I ask because he's clearly inherited the Kelly gift for intelligent comment.Is he also in line to inherit the Kelly yacht?
I think we should be told.
It looks like it’s you who is twisting words, this is not as complicated as you would have us believe. I’m quoting those words because they are very relevant today M.L.King thought so to.
If Jefferson were alive today would he be a supporter of McCain or Obama ? I think he would support the latter.
“ The Scots and the Americans are too poor and too stupid to run their own affairs “
You might have something here, Americans elected Bush after all and some Scots. actually think that there are comparisons between American and Scottish independence both ludicrous situations of course.
I think he’s been reading your comments and sees you as a cross between Alf Garnett and prince Philip. He’s actually being kind to you.
Aw c'mon, you old dinosaur, admit it.
Allan is the result of a liason between you and Mrs Thatcher when she was Min. of Education.
You sacrificed yourself in a brave attempt to save free school milk didn't you, you bold bolshevik
Whit's wrong Terry? Why you not posting my last post? Dinnae like being proved wrong? You should be used to it.
"As for choosing candidates I can’t speak for other parties but over around 40 yrs. In the labour Party I have no knowledge of that"
How did you manage to type this with your fingers crossed?
"If Jefferson were alive today would he be a supporter of McCain or Obama ? I think he would support the latter."
Neither, of course - how can you take an 18th-century thinker and apply his thoughts to a 21st-century debate? It's like asking what Isaac Newton's thoughts would be on particle accelerators.
McNasty - 1/9 1:59
Im sorry, did i touch a raw nerve there... hmmm Let me explain a few things to you.
Racism: if we are soooo full, why do our feral young adults get away with doing nothing, rather than being pressed into working in the hotel trade in the Highlands, where you will struggle to find a scottish accent working in the hotels.
Bigotry - the news about Commander Shabir Hussain's discrimination claim, and the ongoing case of Gurpal Virdi (the asian officer who was framed by his white colleagues for distributing racist material), highlights the need for a black/non white police officers association.
Homosexuality - You're right, in which case why am i subjected to awful flute music in early july, in the name of "religion". Conclusion - Live and let live, because it is a very small rock that we live on.
Have you thought about comedy as a career ? Bernard manning is dead and Jim Davidson is getting on a bit.
(tartan army 2222) 31/08/08
“Pretty much every verse you hear of this song was written by Guthrie”
Nonsense, this is one of the most copied songs there is, everybody and their auntie has changed it around, nothing wrong with that, Woody would have approved.
“Quote the line in the song that makes it a 'call to arms' “
The whole song is a call to arms, maybe you need a bit more vision to see it, and maybe it's just that you are more suited to ‘Flower of Scotland’ Etc.
Since you claim to know what Woody Guthrie would think, I’ll have some of that to.
As an internationalist and an anti racist he would have found Scottish Nationalism and the SNP repellent.
(tartan army 2222) 01/09/08
You obviously feel the need to flatter yourself, not a sign of confidence is it ?
People don’t use words like ‘whit’s’ and ‘dinnae’ you are pathetic.
It’s simply the truth I have no knowledge of this.
“how can you take an 18th-century thinker and apply his thoughts to a 21st-century debate”
With ease, Newton IMO would have supported the bill on embryonic research e.g. and other scientific innovations. Faraday would have been fascinated by new sources of energy, Marx would support Obama, Einstein would be appalled at nuclear weapons which of course he helped to create before denouncing them etc.
“what would so and so say about this/that if he/she were alive today” ? we all do this little exercise all the time except you perhaps.
Will you please explain to Allan why 'our feral young adults get away with doing nothing, rather than being pressed into work.'
Two reasons for asking - Firstly, I dont know the answer and secondly, he is your kin.
Can’t help you I’m afraid, don’t know Allan but, you made your own bed and he is certainly ripping you up for a**e paper, whoever he is.
To misquote The Greatest Ever Englishman,W.S.Churchill, 'Some paper. Some A***
Now, fun over, give your views on your lad's suggestion that our 'feral youths' should be forced into work
Lee Jasper has put forward the idea of 'Black Schools for Black Pupils,' in this country
This is strong stuff - how would it play in Paisley?
Just as well then that Mr Jasper is coloured and Labour - had the BNP come up with that proposal the wrath of the party would have registered on the Richter Scale and the local Stasi, spurred on by the ineffable Mr Vaz, would be taking an interest
Mr. Jasper could be green and a monster raving loony party member and it would still play badly.
You of course would not be able to grasp that would you.
But Terry, Mr Jasper is none of the things you suggest. What he is, is a member of the Labour party and also the Ken Livinston cabal.
Does that explain the deafening silence from Left stage?
You really are hard work, is it just stupidity ?
I never suggested Mr. Jasper was anything, are you incapable of making an argument without lying. Show me where I suggested what Mr. Jasper was.
Ronald Reagan in his declining years could still do a better running America than the puppet Barack Osama.
(GREAT MUTA) 19/09/08
Ronald Reagan was never in anything other than his declining years.
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