Full Council and the meeting was back to it’s old bad tempered ways.
The main issue involving me was an item on the Govt’s proposals for Post Offices. The SNP take the view that none should close, at least they started with that view but, like class sizes and Police numbers it didn’t last long.
The next time you hear any of these disingenuous two faced SNP gnats telling you that no Post Offices should close think about this. At the recent Paisley North Local Area Committee the issue of local closures was on the agenda and the P.O. at Glasgow Airport was marked for closure. The meeting chaired by Cllr. B Lawson SNP and attended by SNP councillors did not say a word about it even when asked by Cllr. Lawson if it should be saved, so that principal of opposition to all closures didn’t last very long, these SNP people are completely untrustworthy.
I made the following point which they predictably struggled to find an answer to. The SNP in Renfrewshire Council have in the past year shut down facilities and cut services such as, Libraries, Housing Offices, Nurseries and Public Conveniences to name just some, the reason ? they are underused said the SNP and have to close. Fast forward to today’s item on Post Offices, 800 P.O.’s get 16 customers a week and 1,600 get 20 a day, the cost to these P.O.’s of a single transaction is £17. are they underused ? well you can decide for yourself but, according to the SNP these P.O.’s should be kept open, by this point Cllr. Mackay the SNP leader was unravelling and his voice was becoming more and more shrill as he tried to defend the indefensible. I’m happy to let these facts speak for themselves this is the SNP in action.
Another motion from Labour produced an unprecedented situation, at least to me it was. No rules govern this but it has always been the case that when a council service such as housing or in this case education is the subject of a motion or an amendment that the convener and deputy convener for that board move and second the item. In this case the SNP amendment was moved and seconded and the rest of the Cllrs. came in with their arguments for and against, then near the end of the debate Cllr. Cameron SNP came in for the first time and made a couple of derogatory remarks designed to insult rather than illuminate, she spoke for less than two minutes along the lines of “youse are wrang and yer aw stupid” everyone has their own style I suppose but here’s the intriguing bit, Cllr. Cameron is the Convener of Education, what can it mean I wonder, probably just the typical inexperienced SNP shambles but you never know do you ? I’ve never seen that before, never, is there a move in the offing I wonder ?
In a debate about travelling people the SNP reached a new low, a motion was put to council and spoken to by Cllr. Nicolson, this was a particularly squalid business even by his own dire standards. He set out to show how tough he could be on travelling people and we became more and more alarmed at his attitude, his hatred was all to plain to see, in this debate Cllr. McFee used the phrase “the final solution” yes you read that right ! and Nicolson, his anger brimming over lost it completely and descended into naked racism when he said “they take what they can get and then clear off back to England and Ireland leaving a mess behind” This is the tartan veil slipping and showing us a glimpse of what nationalism is all about ( hatred of others) and what these guys are really like.
In my own contribution I spoke about the problems which surround travellers and tried to put the issue into perspective I said that the crimes committed by Travellers were classed as low level crime by the police, accepting that they can be a monumental nuisance if you are the victim, also notwithstanding the fact that serious crimes can happen with them and with the rest of the population. I made the point that my house had been burgled 3 times and my car vandalised on numerous occasions as well as 2 cars set alight and burned out, none of this related to travelling people despite their camp being nearby every year.
This seemed to drive Nicolson over the edge as he ranted and raved saying “Cllr. Kelly thinks it’s all right for travellers to set fire to factories “ I called out “that’s a lie” he went on “Cllr. Kelly thinks it’s all right for travellers to drive a forklift truck through a factory wall” again I shouted “that’s a lie” then it was “ Cllr. Kelly thinks it’s all right for travellers to have pit bull dogs menace people” “another lie” I shouted, I then shouted “you are a liar” on he ranted, I then shouted “did you hear what I called you ? what are you going to do about it ? ” on he went, while everyone else stared at the ground.
In all the SNP contributions to this debate revenge and retaliation was the theme, it was left to me and other comrades as well as a dignified intervention from Tory Cllr. Ian Langlands to even mention the possibility of making provision for Travelling people to try to improve the problem, Cllr. Langlands and myself even raised the problem of children among the Travellers who need access to Health Care and Education to the anger of the SNP who wanted blood, children were not their consideration.
This was an unedifying display of foaming hatred by the SNP and quite frankly it was worrying and scary to witness but, it was the real SNP and they are proud of themselves. Is anyone more proud to be Scottish I wonder when you witness this distasteful mob ?
Thursday, September 11, 2008
THE CUT AND THRUST OF DEBATE _ SNP STYLE.
Posted by Cllr Terry Kelly at Thursday, September 11, 2008
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As a member of the public who attended this meeting I wonder if we were in the same room!! You were the one who looked flustered and the labour party appear not to talk to each other. You said the council shouldn't waste public money but were you not the person who wanted to keep the apex centre open, libraries open and neighbourhood offices open despite them being underused!! Pot calling kettle black springs to mind. I think you are all a bunch of hypocrits. At least the administration appear to be united unlike the labour party who continually contradict each other. I look forward to attending many more Council meetings, very entertaining, wonder how red your face can get before you explode!!!!!!!!!!!
I atteneded the meeting chaired by Cllr. Lawson. I represent a local community group. Cllr Lawson let members of the local community make up their own minds and express their own opinions on the Post Office closeures.
I and the most of the other community reps are frankly fed up with the way you and your fellow Labour councillors are behaving at these meetings. We are sick to death of your constant interuptions, just to hear yourselves talk. Why dont you shut up and listen for a change ???
Please dont attend any more.
Terry, this is shocking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope other members of the public witnessed this outrageous and scandalous behaviour from the Depute Provost, I have relations who are Jewish and they will be deeply saddened by these comments, these people should be sent straight to the Standards watchdog straight away and be dealt with in a most severe way.
Ah yes, the cut and thrust of debate,SNP style.
Cllr Kelly,(Labour) "I called you a liar, what are you going to do about it."
And your point is, Councillor?
I was one of the few members of the public attending the meeting yesterday.
For your information, I am not particularly political, so for the avoidance of any doubt, this is not a swipe at either side of the fence.
This is the first time that I have attended such a meeting and to be quite frank I thought a lot of was fairly childish.
I did, however, see a completely different version of events take place as to those detailed here on your blog.
If you misrepresent the facts about this, I wonder how many other things that you are happy to misrepresent.
You talked a great deal yesterday but made very little sense. There were others who gibbered a bit, however, you certainly won the Olympic gold in talking incoherent nonsense.
The fact is that you were utterly humiliated by your opposition and as I watched your face get redder and redder, I did indeed worry that you would explode violently in a seen reminiscent of "Mr Creosote" in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life".
I felt deeply embarrased for you and to give you a little piece of advice, it would perhaps be better leaving the political oratory to members of the party that have a coherency level slightly better than that of semi-illiterate caveman.
I asked people to decide for themselves if these P.O.’s were underused when they are getting 16 customers a week, did you miss that ?
If you were in fact there why do you not comment on Cllr. Nicolson’ lies about what I said ?
I think you are a rather obvious SNP liar.
You seem to have missed the point I made, Cllr. Lawson and the SNP said they would oppose all P.O. closures, at the Paisley North Local Area meeting they did not oppose the closure of the P.O. at Glasgow Airport, they are either breaking their promise or they were lying.
Your local community group have my utmost sympathy.
I think that Cllr. McFee using the Phrase “the final solution” when talking about Travelling People and Cllr. Nicolson saying that the Travellers leave a mess and then “disappear back to England and Ireland” says it all about these two and about Scottish Nationalism. Narrow minded and deeply, deeply ugly.
Yet again you display your ignorance. You clearly think this was a challenge to Nicolson to invite me to meet him in the car park.
I say again you really just don’t have a clue.
Well I suppose I should be grateful that you are “not particularly political” what might you have said had you been a gnat ?
"I shouted, I then shouted “you are a liar” on he ranted, I then shouted “did you hear what I called you ? what are you going to do about it ? ”
Councillor, this just about sums it up. You have no dignity, no self respect and no credibilty.
Carefully study this quote of yours and then stare in the mirror.
I hope this Cllr Nicolson that you appear to be particularly fixated about, has the common sense not to rise to this purile and somewhat pathetic attempt to get attention.
Councillor Kelly - one question which you or maybe Councillor Lawson might answer, why have you kept Postwatch out of the loop regarding the Post Office closure programme? Why did you or the council not invited any of their representitives to come along to the public meeting at the Town Hall?
I find it remiss that yourselves, Renfrewshire Council and Jim Sheridan MP did not see fit to invite them along, or were aware that a committee member of Postwatch Scotland resides in Paisley (I should mention that she is my Partner!). Postwatch are the official auditors of the closure programme, and have a memorandum of understanding to have input in every proposed closure. Most other MP's and MSP's have been aware of this, and availed themselves of the extensive expertise of the 8 committee members and 2 network advisors!!
It is very sad that this particular member has given other areas the benefit of her expertise, but the elected representitives of Paisley have decided not to 'bother' availing themselves of her assistance? It is particularly sad when Postwatch finishes on 30th September, merging along with Energywatch and the SCC to form Consumer Focus Scotland, the new consumer super body.
Point to note: my partner is one of the seven new CFS council members - watch the press on 1st October.
You seem to be mixed up here or more likely you are a liar as well.
The charge of having no dignity or self respect would be more accurately laid at the door of Cllrs. McFee and Nicolson, you don’t mention the lies spouted about me by Nicolson or his racism when referring to English and Irish Travellers, you also don’t mention McFee’s use of the term “the final solution” when talking about Travellers.
Just what kind of person are you to ignore such racism and vile abuse, are you just a typical nationalist ? Does that explain people like you.
I can’t speak for Jim Sheridan and certainly not for Renfrewshire Council which if I can remind you is SNP run.
About two years ago when this all started Labour were in control of the council and I chaired a scrutiny board investigation into the P.O. proposals and I can assure you that we invited everyone who had any interest in the matter to contribute, that report is available on request from Renfrewshire Council.
I had no idea then nor until you sent this that a Postwatch member resided in Paisley, quite frankly, with respect I’m not sure why I should have.
I find your comment a little bit strange and I genuinely don’t quite know what we have done wrong here, the meeting was a public one and no one was prevented from attending but I’m not aware of anyone being specifically invited. I think it was advertised for all of those who had an interest which would include you partner.
If you are suggesting that she was ignored or deliberately excluded please say so and I will take it up with Jim Sheridan, I would of course be interested to here you or your partners views on this.
Kelly @ 6.40
Any car park assignation you wish to make with a fellow Councillor is entirely a matter for you, although if he agrees, he must have appalling taste.
And the views of the civilians present at your little tantrum festival do seem to indicate your remark came across as 'See you Jimmy.'
I accept your explanation that such wasn't your intention, so perhaps you'll tell us what you did mean when you called him a liar and asked what he was going to do about it.
No tantrum I’m afraid, Nicolson was the one having the tantrum, I knew exactly what I was doing.
I called him a liar, he said nothing about it, the SNP chair of the meeting said nothing about it, not one SNP voice was raised against me, not one voice from anywhere was raised against me.
I think I might just have been right.
Funny thing, Terry, when I called you a liar over Thatcher and the wounded, the only voice raised against me was yours
I think I might just have been right
Couple of points here.
1/ How many people are interested in the views of someone who is too timid to identify himself .
2/ Approx. 60 people were present when this took place.
£/ If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to find some bottle, I won’t hold my breath.
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