Thursday, October 18, 2007


A statue of Oliver Tambo went up in London yesterday, this makes at least two statues that I know of which are 'worth the candle' Mandela's and his.

These men were prepared to die in their fight against the evil Apartheid regime, a regime which some people still try make excuses for, even today, people who exploited the black population and benefited from it, these racists are beaten and broken.

Those who went there to exploit and those who tried to undermine the ANC are now disgraced, like Neil Hamilton ex Tory MP and others who wore 't' shirts with the legend 'hang Mandela' at Young Conservative Rallies, a bunch of right wing morons.

The 'boycott' the 'demo's' the 'sporting protests' 'world opinion' stirred up constantly by activists, even insignificant ones like me all played their part, a great cause triumphed and evil was defeated.

Unfortunately the evils of S.A. are still with us wherever people are exploited and the struggle will go on. There is a 'Nelson Mandela Square' in Glasgow and that makes me proud I'm also proud to have been there when he spoke at a packed George Square, anything's possible with right on your side.


Jackart said...


You're so predictable in who you like. Why don't you surprise us once in a while.

RfS said...

Who has been making excuses for apartheid?

I for one find it abhorrent but also recognise that had the ANC not been a thuggish communist organisation the policy would have fallen apart a lot sooner.

I am against the ANC for their brutality and corruption (two traits that continue to this day) but that certainly does not make me for racial segregation.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Jackart - Congratulations - for the first time ever you have caused me to think.

I can't name anyone that I like whom you would know, I sometimes decide that I like someone famous without knowing them personally and find out that I don't like them when I find out about them, and vice versa of course.

I do have friends from many walks of life many of whom would surprise you, from different political persuasions for instance.
I get along well enough with them and even manage to discuss politics with them without falling out, with the proviso of course that they, like you, and others who write opposing me on political issues are always wrong.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - See under Corinthian spirit - Oct. 19 Th. 07 12.29 pm Anon.

Anonymous said...

What do you make of Mandela's recent statement condeming the ANC's crackdown on freedom of expression over the past couple of years?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Rumpole - I don't recall Nelson Mandella making a statement like that but if he did he is entitled to his opinion, if it's true I would support him, is that what the ANC are saying ? "We are cracking down on freedom of expression"?

Perhaps they will throw him in prison.

RfS said...

So those of us who try to blame both sides are apologists for evil and by extension racists but you, by not accepting the ANC as a thuggish communist group with even one or two bad apples, are whiter than white (can I say that or is that a hate crime?). How can there ever be a balanced assessment of the apartheid era with people like you framing the debate in such childlike and simplistic ways.

I would suggest that by refusing to recognise that the political ideology and the brutal actions of the ANC you are little more than a stooge for gangsters and kleptocrats.

The ANC is corrupt and rotten to the core. They incubated this in their struggle and now they practice it in power.

Anonymous said...

Who is Oliver Tambo? No relation to that ghastly fat woman with no arms or legs who sat on the plinth in Trafalgar Sqyuare, I hope!

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - I have made it perfectly clear you and Henry Crun are no different.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

David Duff - Are you a fan of the late great Bernard Manning by any chance ?

RfS said...

You have, yet you fail to address my central allegation.

That it is beyond you to recognise failings in those you have idolised for so long. You and I have spoke about this before. I call it "The Manser Paradox".

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - When I'm dealing with someone about Apartheid who wants to keep telling me about the evils of the ANC and Mandella I know what I'm dealing with.

RfS said...

Your last comment is meaningless. You fail to address the concerns that a lot of black south africans have about the ANC and now you are squirming.

Do you not even accept that in group the size of the ANC some are bound to be bad or corrupt?

Anonymous said...

Another statue to another dead savage, boring.

Byeck said...

"Unfortunarely the evils of S.A. are still with us....."

Yes indeedy, Councillor.

I guess you were referring to the charming S.A. Minister of Health, who, whilst in hospital, ordered staff to go out and buy her booze to fuel parties in her private room?

And who considers herbal remedies a cure for HIV (presumably only for the poor people, politicians naturally getting the good stuff)

And who, with the help of President Thabo, went to the head of the queue for a liver transplant?

Or were you referring to the Head of the S.A. National Prosecution Authority who is currently under suspension?

Or perhaps it was the S.A. National Police Commisioner, who is also suspended?

Or maybe Thabo himself for never publicly criticising Mugabe when he leads the only country that could stop Mad Bob?

Having nailed Neil Hamilton for ripping off al Fayed and letting down the Tories, it's good to see you broadening and continuing the crusade. I'm with you all the way on this one Terry.

RfS said...

You also fail to tell your readership WHY their is a Nelson Mandela Square in Glasgow.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Nothing has changed you continue to attack the ANC, it rather gives the game away, you are a racist, you've already said too much to change that.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Anonymous thank you for this I like people to see that there are people like you.

RfS said...

I am a racist for attacking a political party? I don't think it works like that, do you?

Would you like to try that one again? Or maybe cite a few examples of my "racism"?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Byeck - That's more like you. When someone discusses S.A. with me and concentrates on the evils, as they see it of the black population and the ANC I draw my own conclusion, which is that that person is racist.

IMO the details you have written about whether true or not are nothing when set beside the evils of Apartheid which the black population suffered for 46 years, which you don't mention of course.

What kind country emerges from this hell where 19 million blacks were dominated by 4.5 million whites, where the doctor population was 1/44,000 for blacks and 1/400 for whites, infant mortality was 20%, (40% rural) for blacks and 2.7% for whites, annual education expenditure for blacks was $45 per year and $696 per year for whites, land allocation - blacks 13% and for whites 87%
What you are looks rather obvious.

Anonymous said...

"where the doctor population was 1/44,000 for blacks and 1/400 for whites, infant mortality was 20%, (40% rural) for blacks and 2.7% for whites"

Good point, Terry. Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen a white chap in the Medical Corps who was prepared to go into the black rural communities?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Is it because he is a world wide statesman and hero ? An example to the world of how you can overcome oppression and evil with courage ?

Are you going to tell us that a crooked Glasgow Labour official got it done as a homer and made a few bob out of it ?

RfS said...

Nope, but what I will suggest is that it had something to do with a building on that square and who occupied it.

He was not a statesman when it was renamed. All very childish.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - I paraphrase " when the terrorists attacked Glasgow Airport what do the police do ? they tell us, 'whitey' to calm down" who said that ?

Anyone who talks about Apartheid in terms of black crime gives the game away.

RfS said...

I have told you before Terry, Sarwar was on the telly within an hour of the attack talking about "retaliation against the asian community" and then the police stated that they did not want attacks on "the asian community". I am glad you found this statement to be racist as that is exactly what I was highlighting, racist comments from the police and Sarwar towards the law-abiding majority.

I am just sorry that you cannot comprehend that your seizure on this phrase proves the point I was making.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

guthrie - do you mean a medic who was'nt following orders ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Was it a homer then ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - You asked for an instance and I gave you two, you are an arrogant racist who seems to think you can get away with any old rubbish once you are caught out.

You could always try hiding your poisonous views a bit harder, be a bit more subtle but, I suppose it's too late now for that eh ?

Byeck said...

Re your point on limited educational opportunities for black S. Africans.

I would'nt dream of disputing your figures because it's nice to see some research creeping, albeit slowly, into your replies.

But, given these 'limited opportunities,' would you care to explain how come so many of the current ANC dominated government, have a univerity education?

As an aside, re your reply to my earlier post,"IMO the details you have written....are as nothing when set against the evils of Apartheid."

Oh yes they are Councillor if you're an ordinary, decent S. African struggling to get by, or a starving, brutalised Zimbabwean living in fear of Mugabe's murder squads and wondering why the President of S.A. does nothing.

Unknown said...

You white people you know nothing of our struggle.

Apartheid was very bad for everybody in South Africa. It taught everyone to hate and mistrust.

But the ANC and the PAC were bullies. They bully everyone in the townships.

I was born in Daveyton in the Transvaal. My father he worked for a garage in the town for a white man. That white man was very good to my father, he give him extra money for his children. And the man's wife made clothes for us.

My mother was a nurse at the local hospital and would help anyone in the township. But when Madiba is free from prison the ANC beceome very bad. They come to our house one night to tell my father that there is going to be strike at the mines. My father tell them he does not work for any mines he works for a garage in the town. The ANC men say my father must not go to work.

The next day my father is going to work. The ANC men come again that night and say my father is a collaborator and they take him away and beat him so bad. My mother found him the next day lying in the street and call for an ambulance but my father was dead before the ambulance get there.

My mother sent us away to Middleburg to live with her sister because it is too dangerous for us to live in Daveyton. When I live in Middelburg I found work with a Scottish lady and her husband, Mary and Hughie. I clean her house and do the ironing. One day the Scottish lady tells me she is leaving to live in Britain again but she says I am her family and wants me to go with her.

I come to live in England and Mary helps me go to school. So now I can find work as a secretary and don't have to clean and do the ironing anymore. I am so grateful to Mary and Hughie who help me so much.

Before we leave South Africa, my brother tells me that my mother was also killed. The ANC tell all the neighbours that my mother is a sangoma (a witchdoctor) and she is making all the children in the township very sick. The ANC men come to the house again and take my mother away and they take her into the veld and they stone her to her death.

This is the freedom that Madiba and his friend Tambo gave us. Freedom to kill each other. I will go to London and I will spit on their statues for my mother and my father. They did not stop the thugs that terrorised us.

Gladys Mabuza

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Byeck - What can I conclude from this, you are the same as Henry Crun and RFS - when you discuss S.A. And Apartheid you do it from a stand point which attacks the black population and the ANC.

You will cast around trying to find anything which will justify the racism and evil of the Apartheid regime you are an apologist for them, your poisonous racist bile gives the game away to easily.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Gladys - I'm happy to print your comments I'm sure anyone who reads them will be fascinated by them.

Us people have a lot to learn if as you say we know nothing of your struggle.

Anonymous said...

"when you discuss S.A. And Apartheid you do it from a stand point which attacks the black population and the ANC."

'scuse me! Please tell me where I attacked the black population per se.

I did no such thing. I highlighted the FACT that the ANC were corrupt, vicious thugs who set about trying to run the townships through intimidation of the local populace and exploitation of indigenous belief systems.

Not once, not once did I write anything detrimental to, or disparaging of African people.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Henry - This is the same stuff, racist, you are like a dog returning to it's vomit.

Byeck said...

When I discuss S.A., I do so from the standpoint of how it is today, not how it was or wasn't under Apartheid.

What on earth is "racist" about pointing out the undisputed truth that a number of politicians in that continent are corrupt?

I happen to think most politicians - saving yourself and those members of Paisley Labour Group who have been cleared - are not completely honest. Hell's teeth, according to you, every Tory from Pitt the Elder onwards has been bent. And your allegations are a damn sight less fact based than mine.

You really must stop playing the race card when it isn't justified.

Anonymous said...

Us people have a lot to learn if as you say we know nothing of your struggle.

That account of the 'struggle' sounds a lot like what Henry Crun has been telling you for months. How come you appear to believe Mrs. Mabuza but not Mr. Crun? You havn't made this decision based on perceived skin colour, have you?


RfS said...

"This is the same stuff, racist, you are like a dog returning to it's vomit."

If Henry is returning then that must make you...

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Byeck - When I am dealing with someone who sees S.A. In terms of the evils of the ANC and the black Govt. I know what I'm dealing with.

"And your allegations are a damn sight less fact based than mine" I don't agree.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Patrick - You have got this wrong. read it again.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - It makes me the guy who is answering him each time he returns to his vomit.

I wouldn't want to censor him.

Byeck said...

Oh dear Terry, you're playing the race card again, so, let's recap.

Fact: President Thabo has never publicly criticised Mad Bob or reined him in.

Do you believe he should?

Fact: Much of the aid sent to Africa does not get through to those who need it.

Why do you think this is?

Fact: Africa is riddled with corrupt politicans and officials. Maybe the ordinary, decent people who they starve maim and murder are saying "it's OK, because we're free of the colonial oppressors and these are OUR corrupt politicians and officials," but I doubt it.

One further fact: There are too many thousands starving in Africa, so if you disagree with the above points, maybe you can give other reasons why so many are dying in a continent that is so rich in resouces and given so much in aid.

Unknown said...


Why are you calling Henry a racist. I read the things he posts on your blog. Sometimes he says unkind things to you, but what he says about the townships is very true. You must not be unkind when you speak to these people.

When we lived in Middleburg, the doctors and nurses are too frightened to go their work in the hospital. The ANC came there and told them they must be on a strike.

Who will look after all the sick people in the hospital? So the soldiers come and they work in the hospital and make it safe so the nurses can go to their work.

In South Africa the people don't care about apartheid anymore. It is gone. But now there are other bad things like AIDS which is killing everybody making lots of children into orphans.

If you care about South Africa like you say, you can go there and maybe work in the AIDS orphanages. Then you can see for yourself.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Gladys - The first two posts that Henry Crun sent me contained racist language which was bad enough for me not to print them.
Everything that has happened in S.A. From the introduction of Apartheid has been the fault of the white racists, you can see the same thing happening today in Palestine where people are fighting each other rather than Israel.