Should I be scared ? I have been known to say things about President Bush which could be interpreted as unfriendly, some might even say insulting, I believe that, strange as it may seem there are some people out there who resent me saying these things and, I have had to reluctantly concluded that there are also people out there who have decided that they just don't like me.
They have never met me but, it seems because we hold different opinions and because I won't allow them to use bad language I'm a bad guy.
I also beat them up in arguments but hey ! isn't that what arguing is about, admittedly they are right wing reactionaries which makes my job easier but, I wish they wouldn't be so nasty, it upsets me.
This brings me back to Bush I am reliably informed that someone out there (nameless of course) thinks that I should not be allowed to say nasty things about George, they have, wait for it, complained about me to the American Embassy in London for calling George a 'draft dodging coward' wow ! what to do ? will they draw back from Iraq and come for me ? or is the money the American White House gangsters are making from the war too much to give up.
Maybe this will save me.
Anyway, I'm in the mood for martyrdom so, George Bush you are not a nice man, so there and, furthermore I offer to meet you anywhere and at any time with a view to you and me engaging in unarmed combat. We will then see whether you are a coward, or whether you really are the great John Wayne lookalike who appeared swaggering on the aircraft carrier wearing the flying leathers and declaring "Yurp, my fellow murkins the war is over, we've won."
An insult to military combatants everywhere.
Friday, October 19, 2007
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TK you lardy Scot, think your a hard man come on down to Wales ad get a kicking any time you are on for it.
You will be fine. Free speech is allowed in America and Britain. Now if you were if Cuba and criticised Castro, then you would be arrested and imprsioned without trial.
"Should I be scared"?
No. I suspect Grosvener Square have more important things to do with their time.
I agree with everything you say about Bush.
My wife finds my agreeing with you on anything deeply worrying, but fair do's - you got it right this time.
Now, about the British politicians who supported him. Any comments, or are you happy to blame the organ grinder and let the monkeys off the hook?
Lenin - As Ann Robinson famously said "What is Wales for" ?
Rumbold - Will that be the same Cuba where the Americans are still Imprisoning and torturing people without trial at Guantanemo for what is it now 4 yrs. ? 5yrs, ?
"Rumbold - Will that be the same Cuba where the Americans are still Imprisoning and torturing people without trial at Guantanemo for what is it now 4 yrs. ? 5yrs,?"
You are right- Gitmo is a terrible stain on America's conscience. Perhaps it is something about being on that island that turns people into intolerant and cruel despots.
On a side note, are you ever going to post on the regimes in Zimbabwe or the Sudan?
Byeck - I share your wife's concern, Many British politicians supported Bush with a heavy heart and through gritted teeth, politics can be very difficult sometimes.
I would have opposed him as indeed I did do, the question is though would I have put my political career in jeopardy ? of course I would but, that's easy for me to say isn't it ?
I urged Labour politicians at the time to oppose the war and any association with Bush but I can't force them. As far as my own position is concerned, as I said I lost the argument but I did not resign.
See? Now everyone will jump on the bandwagon of having a go at you. Can I just say I was doing this way before it went mainstream?
Rumbold - I've already written about Zimbabwe and the Sudan.
RFS - ?
If you don't understand that - well...
I refuse to believe that Terry has sparked a Transatlantic row. Obviously somebody told the Americans what Terry had said, they said "no idea who he is, we will get back to you", and now the courts will ship him off to Gitmo.
How do you feel about orange?
Rumbold - RFS is capable of believing that the Yanks will come and get me.
You and RFS have as much chance of being taken to Gitmo as I have, you two could act as fill in torturers when the others get tired.
Orange ? We all know how clever you are now don't we ? Get on with it man.
"many British politicians supported Bush with heavy heart & through gritted teeth."
The Iraq war was the most disgraceful episode in British history in the past thirty years, but you are still not prepared to come out and condemn those politicians who 'gritted their teeth' and nodded it through, as unprincipled liars.
Why the delicacy Councillor? After all, you call Churchill a drunken war-monger, yet his cause was more honourable than Blairs, Browns, or any of the other over-promoted lotus eaters in the Cabinet,desperate to cling on to post, pension and perks.
Or perhaps you dont believe that Blair lied us into war
"You and RFS have as much chance of being taken to Gitmo as I have, you two could act as fill in torturers when the others get tired."
Have you opened RfS' link? It is hilarious.
"Orange ? We all know how clever you are now don't we ? Get on with it man."
Orange, as in the orange jumpsuits that they wear at Gitmo. At least you would be near Fidel.
Looks like your fellow labour activists are trying to frame a non-labour person for these accusations against you in the PDE
Byeck - "The Iraq war was the most disgraceful episode in British history in the past thirty years"
No it's not, that title goes to the Falklands War which was fought for one reason and one reason only, to save the political skin of the most unpopular British Prime Minister in history Margaret Thatcher.
Who decides which cause was the most 'honourable' ? You I take it, the 2nd. World war may well have been the greater cause but that does not mean that Churchill was in any way honourable, he wasn't in the least bit honourable. Did you know that he (Churchill) advocated the sterilisation of people with genetic disorders and mental health problems ?
IMO Blair did not 'lie us into the war' he made a mistake, he did not lie.
Rumbold - I haven't anything of his unopened but I can say I have never laughed at anything he has said, he would find a burning orphanage funny, I wouldn't.
"Orange, as in the orange jumpsuits that they wear at Gitmo. At least you would be near Fidel."
I doubt if I'm alone in not spotting this ref. To orange. Why do you do this ? If you are trying to look clever and no-one gets the ref. what is the point ?
Anon - I think you might be right, my money's on Blair because I've never heard of this guy David McCartney.
I think I've overstepped the mark this time, my phone is making funny noises and some shady looking characters have been following me.
"I think I've overstepped the mark this time, my phone is making funny noises and some shady looking characters have been following me."
Oh please, I think you overestimate your self-importance.
"I doubt if I'm alone in not spotting this ref. To orange. Why do you do this?"
We were talking about Gitmo, and the Gitmo orange jumpsuit is so iconic now I thought that most people would get the reference- I did not mean to be so opaque; sorry.
Henry it was a joke, I don't really think the CIA are following me, really, what did I say about S.A. humour
So, Cllr. Kelly says "the Falklands War was fought to....save..Thatcher"?
No it wasn't - it was fought because Argentina invaded an island that wanted to remain British and, except for The Paisley One, the war had overwhelming public support.
Iraq was invaded by Bush for oil and supported by the UK because Blair lied to the country about WMD.
He did not make a mistake - HE LIED and a P.M. who commits to war either on the basis of a lie or 'by mistake' and still clings to office shames his party.
Or dont you agree?
"Who decides which cause was the most honourable?"
Well Terry, usually, the winners decide, but history doesn't always agree with them. Unfortunately for your argument, history has come down on the side of the angels and concluded that WW11 was a most honourable cause, Churchill a great man and Fascism a great evil.
Heavens, Terry, Russia was on our side in that one.
Regarding your comments on Winston, to paraphrase your reply to my post on S.A. corruption, even if the details you claim are true, they are as nothing compared to his strength, courage and vision, qualities for which he is revered by millions around the free world.(Again, excluding The Paisley One)
Byeck - Falklands = Thatcher, war criminal.
Iraq - Blair did not lie.
WW11 - I didn't say it wasn't an honourable cause.
Churchill, a great man ? No he wasn't.
Fascism a great evil ? - Yes.
Russia on our side ? Yes, they saved our lives.
Churchill, strength, courage, vision ? Rubbish, he was a puppet and a drunken old sod to boot.
Re your answer to my post of 22nd Oct.
With your usual disregard for facts, you still maintain that Blair did not lie about WMD - "he made a mistake." (Your words)
OK, let's go with that. Now tell us, in your opinion, should a PM who costs British - and Iraqi - lives because he made "a mistake" remain in office?
Churchill "a puppet"? Tell us who was pulling his strings, bearing in mind that Attlee was his deputy and gave him his full support.
Thatcher a war criminal for defending British citizens??? Surely not even you can't mean that to be taken literally.
Or are you referring to the Belgrano? If so, let me remind you - Argentina invaded British territory, THEY WERE THE AGGRESSORS, not the other way round. We sent a task force, operating thousands of miles from home to reclaim them. The Belgrano was a large cruiser belonging to the aggressive Argentinians, so, before giving it a chance to harm our people, we sank it.
And Terry, I'd support sinking every ship in the Argentine Navy if it saved the life of on British serviceman. Wouldn't you?
Byeck - "should a PM who costs British - and Iraqi - lives because he made "a mistake" remain in office" In this case - Yes - In the case of the Falklands - No.
Churchill, a puppet, a loveable symbol for the country at war, 'good old Winnie' he wasn't able to light his own cigar, manage a toilet visit and was drunk most days by luncheon. You think he was in charge right ?
"Thatcher a war criminal for defending British citizens??? Surely not even you can't mean that to be taken literally." Not for defending British Citizens, for causing a war (Belgrano) to save her political skin and causing the unnecessary deaths of British and Argentinian lives yes !
"And Terry, I'd support sinking every ship in the Argentine Navy if it saved the life of on British serviceman. Wouldn't you?" If you mean this literally my answer is no - there is no one fiercer than a non combatant is there ?
Mrs Thatcher started the war to save her skin? What?! On the basis that the Argies took it upon themselves to invade the islands was it not they who started it? You remind me of the Germans in the Fawlty Towers sketch.
In fact, I seem to recall that the Tory government had intelligence warning them that an invasion was likely but didn't take pre-emptive action. Interesting contrast with Blair, who had intelligence and got stuck in rather than being sure of his facts.
The few remaining Kelly marbles have imploded.
"Thatcher caused the Falklands War (Belgrano)"
I know you're an original thinker, but you've lost me with that one.I look forward with trepidation to your explanation.
And yes, my views on sinking enemy ships were meant to be taken literally, so whilst you're explaining things, maybe you'd like to explain why it's OK to kill people (Apartheid, Che, Suicide Bombers) and even "dig them up to kill them again" but not OK to protect British Servicemen by sinking the Belgrano, the Santa Fe and any other Argentine warship that left harbour?
Byeck - I've given you my thoughts on the Falklands, like most things you disagree with them.
"maybe you'd like to explain why it's OK to kill people (Apartheid, Che, Suicide Bombers) and even "dig them up to kill them again" but not OK to protect British Servicemen by sinking the Belgrano, the Santa Fe and any other Argentine warship that left harbour?"
You have scant regard for the truth, I have never OK to kill people, that's a lie. When someone says to me that they would 'gig them up and kill them again' I immediately think that that person has very strong views on this subject but, I don't think they genuinely, literally mean that they would do that, if you do you are a cretin.
The Belgrano was not sunk to protect British servicemen it was sunk to deliberately escalate the conflict so that Thatcher could have her war and save her skin.
To "...dig them up and shoot them again," means you would have shot them the first time, therefore you must approve of killing, but then you attempt to change the very clear meaning of what you said.
Disappointing Terry. I expect Huff, Puff and Bluster from you, but not cowardly backtracking. If you don't have the courage to stand by it, you really shouldn't have said it.
You call Bush a draft-dodging coward, yet you dodge people's questions all the time. That's cowardly too!
Byeck - Do you think that repeating things over and over will make it true ?
rumpole - Oh no I dont !
I know that you are not overfond of facts, but I'll have another go:
The Falkland Islanders DID NOT invade Argentina, Argentina invaded the Falklands. Honest, it was in all the papers, including the Guardian.
The Belgrano, a large cruiser with lots of weapons and full of spite and evil intentions, was sunk.
This is the kind of thing that happens when a nasty Fascist junta over-reaches itself.
Err...you did know the Junta was Fascist, didn't you???
Here endeth the lesson and it's my last post on this subject - your craven denial that you have ever approved of kiilling is too much to stomach, so let's move on.
Byeck - The Falklands war was not necessary she deliberately forced a conflict.
"The Belgrano, a large cruiser with lots of weapons and full of spite and evil intentions, was sunk"
If this is true the evil spite, intentions and weapons must have all been at the stern because it was heading in the other direction.
I don't know what you mean about killing, I don't approve per se like most people but I'm not a pacafist.
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