Renfrewshire Council now has a new administration, a pact has been formed between the SNP who were second behind Labour in the popular vote and the Lib. Dems. who were last behind Labour, SNP and Tory in that order.
To my unease and embarrassment, Labour tried to do a deal with the Lib. Dems. as well and failed, the SNP offered more than us, the Lib. Dem. leader Cllr. Eileen McCartin has now been bought and paid for, the Lib. Dems. remind me of the great comedy actress Margaret DuMont, she was asked if she would bestow a kiss on Groucho Marx for money, her outraged reply was "what kind of woman do you think I am" to which Groucho replied " we've already established what kind of woman you are, now we're haggling about your price"
This is the reality of P.R. it's meant to be a better, more democratic system, the Lib. Dems. have just formed an administration with less than 10 % of the vote is there a political prize anywhere for breathtaking hypocrisy ?
Meanwhile Scotland takes a step backwards, at a time when the world needs more integration and cooperation, Scotland takes a regressive slide into parochialism. The conman Salmond makes bellicose statements about the moral right to govern based on a one seat majority gained in an election which could have been run by the aforementioned Marx Brothers, a wee bit of overkill Alex ? LIb. Dems. ? Morality my a - - - . I will return to this.
65 comments:
Given that we are stuck with PR what would have been your answer to this problem?
Looks like bitterness to me, Terry.
A spell on the sidelines might do you good.
I agree with your claim that "the world needs more integration and cooperation", but having read your blog, you don't really seem to be the cooperating type.
How did you work that one out Terry!
Labour and SNP acheived the same number of seats (17 each). ther is no other order after that to my knowledge, therfore one did not come behind the other.
Please correct your statement.
Also you need to buy yourself some sweeter grapes this weekend pal.
Hello, hello, we are the Terry Boys
Hello, hello, you'll know us by our noise
We're up to our necks in right wing blood
Surrender or you'll die
Cos we are the Labour Terry Boys.
I cant believe none of this scum are embarraseed that they dont vote for us Terry.
Terry Kelly, Terry Kelly, Terry Kelly
is the King of Kings
It surprises me that you tried to do a deal with the Libs and their bufoon of a leader who's only talent is in her ability to generate positive PR for herself. Time and time again she has been exposed for puting her party's interests before the people of Renfrewshire.
Is she capable of making a decision when it might be unpopular in her constituency but necessary for the greater good?. What were you thinking of?.
The horsetrading of ideaology and principles is a betrayal of all those who voted for your party in Renfrewshire.
You no longer have the political moral ground by these actions. What happened to 'stand up and fight the fight we have a score to settle' is that noo oot the windae.
Obviously your 'new' leader has failed at his first hurdle allbeit that someone else is pulling his strings how could your support the muppet - sorry I meant puppet.
The Williams man was the one we feared the most but you have gone soft in your feeble attempts to retain power.
This is so typical of the gnats. They didn't even approach LABOUR (equal biggest party) to form a coalition. Any fool can see that would have been the fairest option.
So in effect you're calling Ms McCartin a prostitute. Nice -not to mention sexist.
A sore loser Terry? Yes I am a repeat visitor we is clocking up your stats and not really adding to your profile on the internet.
Terry thou stats prove thy art god come back to smite the SNP - http://theterryboys.blogspot.com/
Terry,
Sad this. Jack McConnell doesn't even have the balls to admit he was defeated. The SNP got results via the ballot box. The gits now being feted in Northern Ireland got there by maiming and killing, terrorising, but your Tony begs them to run the executive.
Stark, raving, insane hypocrisy. Can't you see the irony? Say what you like about Alex Salmond, what do you have to say about Martin McGuinness?
Hi we're Devo from the USA brother!
We wrote this little song for you with much love. We hope you enjoy it. We'll be touring the U of K in the autumn. Peace.
TERRYOID
Terryoid he was a Terryoid
Dafter than you and me
Terryoid he was a Terryoid
And it determined what he could see
Terryoid he was a Terryoid
One chromosome too many
Terryoid he was a Terryoid
And it determined what he could see
And he wore a hat
And he had a job
And he brought home the bacon
to annoy the Jews
Terryoid he was a Terryoid
His friends were unaware
Terryoid he was a Terryoid
Nobody even cared
devo - it really wasn't necessary to tell us you were from the USA - did Bush help you to write this ?
"based on a one seat majority gained in an election which could have been run by the aforementioned Marx Brothers"
Are your pals, Douglas Alexander and David Cairns, now the Marx Brothers?
an election which could have been run by the aforementioned Marx Brothers
Alas, it was run by the Scottish office. Douglas Alexander is your man, I believe... What did you think about the way the election was run? Pretty daft to try to run the 2 different elections on the same day seems to be the consensus.
I believe it was Labour ministers who over-ruled the advice they were given by the electoral commision...
Lemming - Are you saying that ex maths teacher McConnell is saying that the SNP with 47 and Labour with 46 is not a defeat, or are you just struggling to articulate your thoughts ?
I'm not sure what relevance Northern Ireland has but I haven't heard any political leaders criticising what's happened, maybe I missed Alex's thoughts on this.
Do the 'gits' you refer to maiming and killing in Northern Ireland include everyone or just Mr. McGuiness ?
Mr. McGuiness joins a long list of former 'terrorists and enemies' of the British state who have gone on to be feted by various British Governments and of course Royalty. De Valera, Mandella, Mugabe, Amin, Ben Gurion, Begin, Makarious, Kenyata, some of these guys were sentenced to death by Britain. I could go on but I suspect you're not up to this.
You seem to have a rather narrow and chauvinistic view of history typical SNP in fact aren't you ?
anon 'smiting' yow, verily.
Are you saying that ex maths teacher McConnell is saying that the SNP with 47 and Labour with 46 is not a defeat,
So why hasn't the ex-Maths teacher taken then time to publicly congratulate Mr. Salmond (former senior economist to the Royal Bank of Scotland - if we're going to be using CV's) for his well fought, albeit, narrow election victory?
Sour grapes?
Bad Loser?
Instructions from Down South?
Head in the sand?
anon - 'loser' that's not what my experts tell me, you wouldn't be biased would you ?
morag - you are 'at it' no one is that stupid ! then again I don't really know you.
terryboys - well done, you've got me.
I can't make up my mind as to whether you are too clever or too stupid for me.
Sendthenglishome - you seem to have the Lib. Dems. Right. The horse trading sickens me but it's now the name of the game it's called PR.
BTW should sendthenglishome not be sendthenglishame with an 'A'
anon - 17 each - be more clear.
terryboys - is there a glimmer of talent there ? keep it up, remember the success of Fran n Anna, Burns etc.
Brian - If you mean I'm not about to co operate with the SNP whose world ends at Carlisle then you are right.
RFS - I don't have an answer to this problem, other than minority rule.
I'm working on it but I sometimes think about Genghis Khan, he didn't rule the world by calling meetings he did it by killing his opponents.
anon 'marx bro's' no.
plagiarist - I don't expect anything else from you, I'd be the same.
I'm much more concerned about the inability of many people to figure the Ballot paper out and the turn out ( France 85% ) these are far more chronic problems.
I suspect that there are several reasons he hasn't done this 1/ Salmond is an odious shyster. 2/ he still hopes to be first minister himself 3/ his campaign wasn't well fought, it was a tissue of lies.
You give 4 possible reasons, one of them shows the SNP colours.
Sour grapes, so what ?
Bad Loser, so what ?
Head in the sand , no
No. 3 'Instructions from Down South' this should have read Instructions from those English
B - - - - - - s this what 'Down South' or 'London Rule' means, you and your faint hearts have lost the bottle to say it anymore - cowards.
1/ Salmond is an odious shyster. 2/ he still hopes to be first minister himself
3/ his campaign wasn't well fought, it was a tissue of lies.
Terry, what a line! Congratulations!
No. 3 'Instructions from Down South' this should have read Instructions from those English
B - - - - - - s this what 'Down South' or 'London Rule' means, you and your faint hearts have lost the bottle to say it anymore - cowards.
I hope you're not trying to put words into my mouth!
But the people that I might have worried about passing instructions were Ming Campbell and Gordon Brown, both Bone fide Scots the last time I looked.
Still, I do like your grown up approach to the accusation that it's sour grapes from Labour just now. When do you expect the lip to become less petted? Is there someone that could give Jack a hug and/or a sweetie? Will we have to weather this petulant storm until someone replaces him?
Terry,
I love reading your blog. You are 100% mental!
As one buddy to another, I must congratulate you on your unerring dedication to having the last word, and your uncanny ability to avoid answering direct questions.
Despite all that, you run rings round your competition. Even though I'm an SNP supporter I think you're brand new :-)
Terry - don't ever change. The internet would be a poorer place without ye.
Regards,
Dunferino (aka Scott)
As has been pointed out, it was a Labour minister who presided over the election.
PR is a bad idea, but did you advocate ditching the Lib Dems and ruling as a minority government after the last election? Even if there was first past the post, would it have produced an absolute majority for any party?
(I know the answer to neither of these; they are not meant to be leading questions).
Please do not refer to Martin McGuiness as a 'terrorist' in inverted commas. There is no need for the inverted commas.
TK,
That's 11 - count 'em ,eleven, comments in a row from you.
Your blog, of course, and your rules - but any chance you could consolidate your answers into one or two larger comments, rather than answering each one sequentially as you read it?
It makes you sound like a child.
eugenides - Yes that sounds fine, except I would then be accused of avoiding questions by a mob quite possibly fronted by you.
rumbold - A Labour minister did preside. PR stinks. I did advocate ditching the Lib. Dems. FPP may well have produced a majority, I've not done that analysis.
There is every need to refer to Mr. McGuiness as a terrorist in inverted commas, I thought I had given you an inkling of why, maybe I didn't explain it correctly.
Let me ask you again, is he the only one ? your answer to this will tell me something about you.
There is no real difference between Paisley and McGuiness, apart from their attitudes to the nature of Christ in Mass.
Northern Ireland has been forced to hand power over to bigots and murderers, because of Westminster’s failure to make any meaningful concession to the moderate Unionist and Republican parties. This destroyed their credibility, so the voters turned to extremists in the hope of getting something. The situation is certainly better than the IRA bombing people, but it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth when one watches Paisley and McGuiness crowing.
Dunferino - someone saying 'your dead pure 100% mental man' can be taken as a term of endearment but, I don't avoid answering anything as long as it's fit to print.
I concur that in this field I am brand new and that I easily run rings round my competition, no great feat alas, but I can't be blamed for that.
plagiarist - 'Words in your mouth' ? You know what I mean all right, you just lack courage, what you really mean is Ming Campbell and Gordon Brown are traitors don't you ?
'Words in your mouth' ? You know what I mean all right, you just lack courage, what you really mean is Ming Campbell and Gordon Brown are traitors don't you ?
Is that you running rings around me again... stop, I'm getting dizzy!
I see that once again you've decided I must be a Nationalist who hates all things English. If that were the case, I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't be proud of a Scotsman running the Westminister parliament...
The problem for the Scottish Labour Party or to be more accurate the central belt part of it is that they believe they were born to rule. Join the party, get your way up there and hey presto - power, patronage prestige etc. Does not matter what you believe in. It is joining the party that is important.
This smugness was best summed up in the past in Tom Brown's columns in the Daily Retard. He used to pass judgement on non-Labour politicians in Scotland usually stating "now if they had only joined the Labour Party, they would have got somewhere, some influence, some power instead of being on the sidelines and being failiures" or something like that. He passed verdicts like this on Charles Kennedy and Alex Salmond. They would have made good Labour junior ministers he would crow - but they wasted their lives by joining the wrong party. Nothing about beliefs or principals. Join the party and climb on board the gravytrain.
Now they have been swept from power in their fiefdoms, there seems to be a sense of "you can't do this to us!" Denial is no longer just river in Egypt within the Scottish Labour Party.
There is nothing wrong with PR as it does give sort of the government the majority of people want. Not an electoral dictatorship.
It is said that some people do not understand PR. That FPTP is more simple and understandable. Well dictatorship is simple and understandable but I do not think many readers would advocate it.
FPTP gives firm government. People enjoy the smack of firm government until it starts smacking them around. Like the Tories in the 80's and the Blair regime recently - able to do what they did on a minority of the votes cast.
Scottish Labour has to grow up. Hopefully the country has moved on from the monkey in a red jacket - born to rule mentality. And maybe we can put the scandals of Monklands (which neither Tom Clarke or John Smith neither seemed to tackle), North Lanarkshire or even Glasgow.
Query Terry, why has the Lord Provost of Glasgow always been a catholic in the past few decades when the city population is only one third catholic? Something to do with the Irish-Catholic Celtic supporting Labour oligarch that operates out of city chambers as described once by George Galloway (who himself is a catholic of Irish descent) before he went solo?
Or is the next Provost Mr Winter a break in this tradition? I gave a wee chuckle to myself when I saw that Councillor Malik went to the papers saying he wanted to be the next Provost. Thought to myself that he should change his name to O'Malik and declare he is a catholic muslim. Probably something in Glasgow Labour rules that all provosts must eat pork and drink guiness (Councillor Malik is a Halal butcher).
Although I am sure that if the flute playing rednecks/orcs that pass themselves off as "loyalists" (loyal to fit?) found themselves in the same position Glasgow would and has probably had a sucession of Mason Boyne provosts.
Talking about Ireland, here is an interesting story about PR. In the Republic the largest party since 1932 has been Fianna Fail - no small feat since there have been 23 elections from 1932 onwards with the 24th next week. However they have always nearly had to form coalitions or minority governments to stay in power. Fianna Fail have twice tried to get PR abolished - so they could be perpetually in majority no doubt. The Irish rather wisely rejected both proposals at referendums.
Fianna Fail - a party that supposedly the constant aroma of corruption and an unofficial motto of "we'll get ye if you don't". Sound familiar in the western central belt lands of Scotland in connection to party politics?
The problem with PR is that while it may be argued that it gives an outcome that is more representative, it does give an unrepresentative amount of power to minority parties where there is no clear winner.
However, I'm not sure Labour in Scotland can altogether complain about this, they have used coalitions with Lib Dems themselves in the past.
Also, keep in mind that if the Scottish parliament was elected by first past the post, you may well have had the SNP / Labour head to head, with both parties number of MP's even more unrepresentative of the popular vote in percentage terms, which, ironically, could have given independence an even greater voice ~ although it's hard to say how people would vote under this system when you only have data from a PR / Regional list election, so this isn't a cert.
Who knows what the solution is?
As I have noticed a lot of people(mostly the losers but some of those who won seats) complaining about PR and also a lot of reports of confusion by voters do you think it would be best to go back to the old first past the post system?
anon - 'voting systems' PR was championed by people who could never win under FPP so what's new ?
I would prefer FPP but that won't happen, we should all be concerned about political education and turn out, otherwise we better learn to live with the Lib. Dems. In power despite coming last of four parties with less than 10 % of the vote.
That's more democratic according to them, that's their idea of principles.
Harry Haddock - Labour have indeed done deals with the Lib. Dems. against my wishes I can assure you.
This genie will not go back into the bottle easily, you are right, there is no easy answer but I support FPP it's not perfect but look at this mess.
I'm not being political here and I do want young people to get more involved but, for god's sake look at Aberdeen is this the benefits of PR ?
I'm not being political here and I do want young people to get more involved but, for god's sake look at Aberdeen is this the benefits of PR ?
100% with you there. The new Aberdeen council is frightening!
Aberdonian - A ludicrous tour de force, I'm going to print it but don't expect me to print this size of a comment again, I'm too busy.
'Labour think they are born too rule' gravy train, power, patronage, Labour in denial, etc etc all the old tired gibes, you can clearly talk in clichés "until the cows come home" you're quite funny really.
You should consider this - because you say something doesn't make it true and people are entitled to their opinion - you're comment is nothing more than a bigoted unprincipled rant, I assume that you are serious but you really need to get a grip.
You sound just like other poisonous characters who did not succeed in Labour politics, I've been in the Labour Party for approx. 40 yrs and I don't recognise any of the garbage you have written.
I note you are 'Aberdonian' and you favour PR which has just given your great city an 18 yr. old the Deputy Provostship, a 21 yr.old Convener of Education, a 22 yr. Old Convener of Licensing and a 26 yr. Old Convener of Appeals.
I want young people involved but, can't you hear the laughter ? The derision ? This is the reality of PR.
plagiarist - I'm happy to let people read that response.
plagiarist - I'm happy to let people read that response.
Hmmm! it must have been too subtle for you then ;-)
"I note you are 'Aberdonian' and you favour PR which has just given your great city an 18 yr. old the Deputy Provostship, a 21 yr.old Convener of Education, a 22 yr. Old Convener of Licensing and a 26 yr. Old Convener of Appeals.
I want young people involved but, can't you hear the laughter ? The derision ? This is the reality of PR."
Ageist! That's discrimination, mate!
Terry,Terry, Terry,
When are you going to realise that the electorate are fed up with the arrogant politics of the labour party. Give the SNP a chance, you are still in a position of influence, dont be so nasty. Give them a chance. If they fail then you can gloat even more.Remember Snodgrass the puppetmaster has gone on to destroy Ayr town centre the way he destroyed Paisley.
Say what you like you all sat back and allowed him to continue his destructive ways, destroying small businesses reducing the friendly town of Paisley to being the butt of jokes.(notice no barb)
Terry, how am I a bigot? For the record I have never been involved in the Labour Party. My nearest link to them is that my Dad used to vote for them and was a member of Aberdeen Trades Club.
Indeed as a civil servant for a foreign government I cannot take part in active politics.
Concerning my attacks, they were focussed on the central belt Labour Party. In Aberdeen, Inverness, Dundee and Dumfries the control of the party has been far from rock hard. In Aberdeen in particular where the media do not favour any political party largely due to the diverse political support in area. All four parties have bastions of support. The media backs personalities such as Salmond, Bruce, the late Buchanan-Smith and former MP Bob Hughes.
In Aberdeen there have been several admirable Labour Lord Provosts such as the late Alex Collie, Jim Wyness and of course Margaret Farquar.
Farquar laid down a benchmark of being what a good civic leader is. Then it was spoiled by her fellow Labour sucessor Margaret Smith who was a bit of junket junkie and insisted on taking one of her friends to provide company on her jollies - at the city's expense. Mrs Farquar did not do many junkets and always travelled alone - she is a widow of some 20 years. Miss Smith for the record is single.
The media made hay and was badly handled by council leader Lenny Ironside. Labour was put out of office in 2003 partly because of this.
Which is a shame in some ways as Lenny would make a good Provost. It would give a bit of colour having a former wrestler (he is a Commonwealth Games medal holder) as civic leader. I remember seeing him at the music hall in contest in 1991. The spandex provost!
In some of my sources I was quoting Tom Brown, a man so in bed with the Labour Party he is covered in bed sores and of course Mr Galloway.
Concerning ages of my native city's civic leaders, well think of Pitt the Younger. Or even closer to home Michael Collins as joint Prime Minister of Southern Ireland at the age of 31.
By the way, answer my question about the religion of Glasgow provosts will you?
Lofty - If the electorate are fed up with the Labour Party why is it that the SNP won by only one seat and here in Paisley Labour won the largest share of the popular vote, a bit premature with your claims surely.
Don't be nasty to the SNP ? You clearly don't know them.
I think I've heard you on about Snodgrass before, are you a failed former Paisley business man ?
Aberdonian - a political bigot.
Pitt the younger was a result of privilege and wealth while Collins got there as a result of an armed struggle, are you comparing these with Aberdeen's new kids ?
The rest of this is tired, regurgitated drivel, this is your last warning, be briefer.
Answer his question on the catholic Lord Provosts of Glasgow and Labours support base there.
By the way I am a catholic, and not of the pick and choose variety.
Is it not the case that part of the West of Scotland Labour Party patronage system that Labour is aware of who is a mason and who a catholic and tries to accommodate both tendencies.
Thats the way Labour works, pathetic.
Ok, nice and brief:-
1- How am I politcal bigot. You dislike the Tories and SNP with ire. Does not that make you a political bigot?
Am I bigot because I question the wisdom of the Labour Party (or any other political party come to think of it). That is a bit Stalinist is it not?
2- I am sorry you are having problems with my previous posts. It must take you a while to look up all the words I use in your dictionary.
I should not fight a battle of wits with an unarmed man!
Can you answer my query on the Glasgow Provosts by the way?
Fortunatley, we now have age discrimination legislation, so your thoughts on the age of those being ELECTED to positions of trust are irrelevant. It seems to me that, given the frightful mess your generation have made of our country, they can't od much worse. I work with kids and they seem to me to be bursting with ideas, albiet from a faitly fresh perspective. Let's give them a chance to fail, eh?
Jim Lewis - Your antipathy to me and Labour leads you to a preposterous position over the young people in Aberdeen.
I am delighted that young people are involved but without denigrating them in any way I question their suitability for these posts, they may well develop into wise and industrious politicians, I hope they do.
Their position at the moment and your support for it is just nonsense, it really is, Aberdeen has been made a laughing stock and it's down to PR.
Aberdonian -
1/ I argue against other parties you regurgitate prejudicies.
2/ no problem reading you words - problem is with how banal and predictable they are.
This fixation with Catholics proves my point about your prejudicies.
Anon - what do you mean by a 'pick and choose' Catholic ? Does the sun go around the earth in your world ?
I've been a Labour Party member for approx. 40 yrs and I don't recognise any of what you say about religion. I fear you have a sectarian problem here.
Terry,
when was the last time you argued against another party? You are the one who dredges up horrible stereotypes. You are the one who uses the phrase "typical..." and then insert the name of the party you think your target supports.
The Aberdonian is a very intelligent person who has kept me on my toes over the past year or two. Indeed I have found him to be very well informed and educated and has forced me to defend my position on more than one occasion. I hope that when I have done so I have not decended into name calling.
I am in no way sectarian. Apart from having had a very devout catholic ex-girlfriend (she did the rosary daily and did Latin mass), my ex-flatmate is a former St Aloyisus boy and indeed I have a number of friends who are alumni of that establishment. As they say - the Jesuits are the SAS of the Church.
Please see my original post about "loyalists" being orcs and rednecks.
My point is about oligarchs and the one in charge of Glasgow City in particular. My ex-flatmate (whose father was a friend of Dewar's and John Smith's- they read law together) illustrated the make up of this oligarch well with a little story. When my ex-flatmate was at some Celtic supporters (he is a life-long follower) do he came across some prominent Glasgow Labour councillors who were singing songs about the Easter Rising.
He told them his grandfather had been involved in the Rising - he had taken part in putting it down. He got a bit of vicious abuse from the councillors and then they stormed off.
Aberdonian - Sectarian - " narrow minded" "partisan" etc. It wasn't meant to mean you are sectarian in a religious way, it just meant you have a problem with sectarianism.
I've heard all this stuff before and it's nonsense as far as I'm concerned, it makes no more sense than those who say that the Scottish Labour Party is dominated by the manse.
RFS - Is that it ? I'm this I'm that and the next thing, I'm a terrible man right enough, go and read some of your own blogs and stop whining.
If by name calling you mean my use of the word sectarian I advise you to read my last answer to him. I think Aberdonian once said something like, when arguing with me, " I shouldn't get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man" now that's not very nice, is it ?
Not nice no, but devistatingly accuate.
I would remind you that my opinion of you is formed over the whole of your blog not just this post. I am sure that there are several examples in each post of your tactic of playing the man.
And again you can only attack me through other peoples blogs. Here is a thought, I am not responsible for any blog apart from my own.
RFS - You are sounding a bit precious here, do you want me to make allowances for you ?
Is there any chance of you explaining your remark about other people's blogs ?
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