Friday, June 13, 2008


With apologies to Orwell, Winston Smith orAnyone else who has been arrested and put in a cell will tell you that it is a very scary experience, the feeling of helplessness is palpable, you do not often find yourself in such a position of almost complete vulnerability, that is why despots have used prison throughout the ages to control and frighten people.

One of the proud boasts of our "free western democracies" is our way of life, I'm mainly referring to America and Britain when I think of the square jawed distinguished politician talking to camera following some bombing atrocity, they come over all Churchillian (without the slurring) and say we here in Britain/America will never allow these people to force us into changing the way we live our lives - this, if you will pardon the expression is a crock of 'Bulldung' they already have.

The British House of Commons has just passed a bill which is designed to allow the state to incarcerate someone without charge for 42 days, while in America (Gitmo) They keep people in Jail for 6 years without trial and they use torture as well.
Unless I've missed something pretty big that is some change to our way of life in fact it's a victory for the bombers and it will recruit more of them.
These proposals are the kind of thing that we used to accuse others of doing and call them uncivilised and undemocratic, it would appear that it's OK for us but not for 'Johnny Foreigner' what hypocrisy.

If this bill succeeds I will be left wondering if there will ever come a time when the Govt. the two faced Tories as well will ever say " well since we are now in a peaceful and safe position we are changing detention without charge back to 3 days " Scotland's victory over Brazil in the World Cup Final would be overshadowed by that news item.


Lucy said...

Spot on. It really is absurd political posturing at it's worst. But as for your last para I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a future tory govt to reverse any legislation of this kind.

As an aside what do you think of David Davis's rather surprising actions?

Macnasty said...

This disgraceful Bill is a purely Labour idea, opposed by the Tories, who have promised to repeal it.

Further, the Lords look like throwing it out.

Go on, bite the bullet and agree that freedom is in better hands with Conservatives and Peers than with Labour, who used anti-terror laws to justify ejecting Jack Straw's pensioner heckler from conference, ban Brian Haw from protesting outside Parliament and arresting two Grannies at Menwith Hill?

Should this Bill ever become law, be afraid, very afraid.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Lucy) 16:53

Davis was a shoo in for Tory leader he comes from a modest background Cameron is a toff and stole the prize it’s not very edifying I know, but if Davis thought he could damage Cameron by campaigning for 6 months detention without charge he wouldn’t hesitate .

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Macnasty) 17:04

Most of what you say is reasonable except those two Grannies, they were damned dangerous.

Andy said...

Come one, you have to admit that the erosion of our hard won liberties has been all Labour's doing - But i never thought it would happen;I agree with your post completely - let's jpoin forces comrade to protect our freedom's as citizens!

Seriously, I can't help feel that this bill is a dog whistle to Sun reading racists - "if they're brown let's bang 'em up" .. just disgraceful

Lucy said...

I don't doubt you're right about his motives but I wonder if it will do any good or if it could be used by those of us against the law to bring more attention to the issue itself.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Andy) 18:17

A very subjective/selective view of history, I think I have made my position clear on this.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Lucy) 18:32

His motives are easy to spot, what it might lead to is more difficult. There is a quite large majority of the public in favour of 42 days probably more if you asked them.

Similar to immigration and hanging, it’s worrying.

Lucy said...

Yes but think of the way this gets reported in the tabloids. The issues aren't fully explained and it's made to seem that anyone who opposes laws like this supports terrorists. If I were relying on the tabloids for my information I'd support this too.

There is also the problem that many people wrongly that that the only people really affected by this law will be muslims and as they're not muslims so they the don't care. However if they realised how this law will be misused and how they could be affected they might not be so willing to support it. I should add that I'm not implying such views are acceptable just noting that they're pretty widespread.

I'm not saying it's easy but I don't think it's impossible to change public opinion on this one.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Lucy) 13/06/08

I agree with your comments, the tabloids will be deciding whether to call Davis a champion of freedom or soft on terrorism.

It looks like it will descend into farce and Davis is finished, Cameron will settle the score with him.

Anonymous said...

Come one, you have to admit that the erosion of our hard won liberties has been all Labour's doing

I wasn't aware that Margaret Thatcher, who started that erosion, was a member of the Labour Party.

Lucy said...

I've just found out something interesting about the figure of 69% that is being quoted in support of this legislation.

The question asked in the You Gov poll was

"Currently, the police may hold suspected terrorists for up to 28 days before having to charge or release them. The Government wishes to extend this time limit in exceptional circumstances to 42 days. Do you support or oppose extending the time limit to 42 days?"

I can't help but think the "in exceptional circumstances" might have skewed the result.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Lucy) 15/06/08

The way the question is put is of course very important but there are questions which I would be worried about and this is one of them, so is capital punishment, corporal punishment, immigration etc.

As Mrs. Merton said to Debbie McGhee “ what first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels” or “have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no” ?

David Davis wants everyone who ever committed a crime to have their DNA on a police data base, he supports hanging and he supported imprisonment without trial in Northern Ireland, it’s a stunt.