I sometimes find it hard to believe that in 2008 the problem of racism still dogs society, despite the progress that mankind has made some people still judge other people by race rather than "the content of their character" as The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther king famously said.
In Spain recently at a motor racing event the young British driver Lewis Hamilton was subjected to racist abuse by Spanish fans who had blacked up to abuse him, motor racing for god's sake !
Spain has a particularly bad reputation on this and the authorities have failed to address it.
Any country which lived under Franco for so long would hardly emerge unscathed but that alone does not explain it.
Thierre Henry planned a reaction when playing for France against these Spanish thugs, when he scored a goal he walked across to where the worst of the abuse was coming from and stood with his arms on his hips and just stared at the people who were abusing him, he held this stance for a while and his team mates stood aside before congratulating him, it was devastating and powerful, Spain was held up to ridicule.
The problem is world wide and Britain including Scotland has it's share, the amount of anti English feeling that exists here is sickening and damaging to Scotland's reputation.
The campaigns to 'kick out racism' in sport are well meaning but they are not enough, something tougher is required like banning those guilty of racism including teams and countries from events as well as clamping down hard on other race/hate crimes.
I remember all those years ago when Tommy Smith and John Carlos stood on the Olympic Podium and gave the Black Power salute, it was one of sports most thrilling events of the twentieth century.
We cheered and shouted that racism was on it's way out, that's not the only thing we got wrong but, we must not give up, this and other evils can be overcome, we need the political will to do it.
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60 comments:
Scottish Labour getting all upset about anti-English sentiment? Two words:
Poll Tax.
I remember the Scottish Labour party muttering darkly about the "english imposing a tax on the Scots" and how they "would not do it to their own". But when that translated into votes for the SNP the Labour Party suddenly found Unionism and attacked the "anti-English" sentiment that it had carefully cultivated.
Also, the Black Power movement was more than a civil rights movement, it was militant and advocated racist policies towards non-blacks (including orientals, native Americans and other minorities). So what you are saying is white racism=bad, black racism=good?
Hi again, Terry
Agreed. I should be really concerned if the "the content of ...(your)... character" was attributed to me too, merely because we share a common race.
But do you see anyone's finding some of the more general content of 'English character' as being distasteful to their Scots frame of reference as non racist or not, insofar as the world view of many English people is often quite different from that of Scottish folk?
(ShrekBall) 14:10 -
That was an important test you just failed.
When I wrote an anti racist post, you wrote back.
Did you condemn racism ? No.
Did you show sympathy for people who suffer race hatred ? No.
Did you say anything about the treatment of racial minorities ? No.
What did you do ? you attacked the black protestors, it rather gives the game away.
The American white supremacists are great admirers of the purity of the Scots, I think they mean Scots like you. Do you call your white hood (ShrekBall) ?
(Scunnered, O'Aberdein) 14:31 -
Do you hate the English that much that you refuse to speak it properly.
“the more general content of 'English character' as being distasteful to their Scots frame of reference”
The Italians are cowards, the French are filthy, the Germans are arrogant, the Irish are thick, the Welsh are pious, the English are superior and the Scots are of course mean.
I could go on but it’s too stupid for words.
“merely because we share a common race”
Don’t include me in your ‘race’ I’m not one of you, I regard myself as a citizen of the world, I couldn’t care less about race, Scots. Or otherwise.
"The Italians are cowards, the French are filthy, the Germans are arrogant, the Irish are thick, the Welsh are pious, the English are superior and the Scots are of course mean."
Just sent your comments onto your mate McWhirter at The Herald and your comrades at Labour HQ.
I wonder what they will make of your anti-European sentiments.
Are European women thick too?zrltj
Oh, dear!
'Do you hate the English that much that you refuse to speak it properly'
I'll accept that some of your more bizarre responses may arise from your not having properly read the comment. I'll concede that my question might have been more eloquently stated
Anyway, I really meant the often clearly discernable difference between the greater humanity and social concern expressed verbally and tangibly in the northern parts of the UK (and that includes Northern England, the question posed was a bit simplified) from the somewhat more insular nature of the Southerners. Having gone from one to t'other, it's merely a fact of life, and while not universal, it is quite a general condition.
My take on it is that the differences are more dependent on cultural and environmental background than mere 'racial' origin, and I had hoped that you would express a view that a dislike for these effects might be legitimate and proper, being opposition more to a 'way of living ' as opposed to merely some 'racist' dislike
As such, maybe Scots who express 'anti- English' feeling need not necessarily all be quite as 'racist ' as you might think. Some yes, and they deserve no sympathy, but not necessarily all, or even the majority
I don't care much about race either, but I would arrange a sense of humour transplant for you if I could
Enjoy the weekend
I did condemn racists. I condemned those who would make the salute of a black racist organization. Just the same as I find it disgusting to see those pictures of the England team forced to do the Nazi salute.
Unlike you I condemn all racism everywhere and I do not give some and easy ride or free pass because of their colour. All racism is wrong but out of the two of us only I am saying that.
Take a long hard look at yourself councillor. As you are so fond of saying - your prejudice is showing with this post.
Is it just me Terry or have you, in an attempt to pick a fight over anything anyone else says, have you just said you are not human?
Genetics has shown that we are all of a single race just everyone is slightly repackaged.
So pompous "citizen of the world" speeches or not. You are just like us. Sweet dreams.
My heart soared as I started to read your post. I thought at last someone was going to demolish the Scot's aren't racist myth. Alas no!
Are you so poisoned by your hatred for the SNP -your political bigotry that you cannot see the appalling treatment that has been dished out to Asians in Scotland over the year and which continues today? Are you really that dogmatic and blind?
The vast majority of the anti-English crap you hear is petty tribalism and sporting rivalry. It is disgusting and inexcusable but if Scotland is looking for reasons to be ashamed anti-English feeling isn't top of the list.
(Serpico) 08/02/08 -
I think you will find that those you have sent this to will recognise that I am pointing out the stupidity of racial stereotyping. There isn’t much hope for you I’m afraid.
You forgot to add that I said that ’this is too stupid for words’
(Scunnered, O'Aberdein) 08/02/08
Oh dear indeed so, it was all an elaborate joke.
I don’t accept that there are any differences between people in the things that matter.
Language, customs, accents etc. are of course different but, no-one anywhere is any better or worse, good or bad, brave or cowardly, generous or mean because of where they were born.
(ShrekBall) 08/02/08
As I said - you failed.
(ShrekBall) 08/02/08
And you have inadvertently shown us what you are.
(Samia) 08/02/08
I’m really not sure what has upset you here but for the avoidance of doubt let me say clearly.
I am happy to play my part in demolishing the myth that Scot’s aren’t racist.
I have made this point many times, the problems of racism exist in Scotland.
Some apologists try to play this down but they are either liars or are in denial.
Countries are not racist, people are and Scotland is no different, to call Scotland or any other country racist would be wrong because that would imply that all Scot’s are racist and clearly they are not but the problem still exists.
I have campaigned in the south side of Glasgow and noticed the reluctance of Asian people to answer their doors and the number of Asian homes where heavy security chains are fitted to doors.
I hope that’s clearer.
I have campaigned in the south side of Glasgow and noticed the reluctance of Asian people to answer their doors and the number of Asian homes where heavy security chains are fitted to doors.
Is that because they are terrified of the Asian gangs that run amok in the Southside?
Not opening doors and heavy chains in the southside? Must have seen you lot coming I think! Most Asians I know (being a resident of the southside) will not open their doors because you might be from the council and uncover their multiple occupancy or other activities such as not paying council tax or not cleaning the stairs!
Anyway a man like yourself climbing stairs, in another life perhaps!
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 11/02/08
A typically small minded gibe from someone who is in denial about the problem of racism in Scotland.
(Anonymous) 11/02/08
As I have said many times, Scotland has a problem with racism, thank you for confirming this so eloquently.
A typically small minded gibe from someone who is in denial about the problem of racism in Scotland.
How does my concerns regarding the gangs of Asian youths running amok in the Southside of Glasgow amount to denial of racism?
'Is that because they are terrified of the Asian gangs that run amok in the Southside?'
In some cases yes but they're equally terrified of the violent white gangs running amok who've been a problem on and off for the last twenty years. We were always told that this was because they're poor and get upset seeing Asian people with cars. Or in the case of those from the nearby children's homes that they were upset by Asians having close families. Still at least they had an excuse not like those nasty Asians.
Oh and anon as I have Asian father and a white mother do we only clean half the stairs, pay half the council tax and sleep ten rather than twenty to a room?
I can assure you that a glance through the names passed to debt management at Glasgow City Council for non-payment of council tax will tell you that non-payment is not confined to the Asian community. In fact the highest percentage of non-payers reside in the very white East End.
I don't think that pointing out that the majority of people in my area who do not clean their stairs or have more people living in the flat than it can accommodate are Asian makes me racist! I am just stating the truth. Get a proper debate going if you want do not just throw insults!
(Samia) 12/02/08
Samia - Can I assume that this post is aimed at the ‘incorrigible plagiarist’ who posted on Feb 11 th. At 3.56 pm and ‘anonymous’ who posted on Feb 11th at 8.29 pm Anonymous racist cowards both.
(Anonymous) 12/02/08
Saying that the majority of people who don’t clean their stairs and have more people staying in their flat than it can accommodate are Asian, makes you a low life racist bigot and hiding behind anonymity makes you a coward.
Scotland certainly has a problem doesn’t it.
As an employee of the Council Samia mentions I can state she is talking nonsense about the "debt management profile " she quotes. It seems Muslims will get upset at the drop of a burqua these days.
As for you Terry, try living and working with people who are so insular and self centered. "They" do not even try to integrate into our society. As a man from an Irish Catholic background, and myself from a Jewish one we know how hard our parents made an effort to"fit in" while still being true to their beliefs. Not so the Muslim community.
So, Samia agrees that there are violent gangs of Asian youths running around the Southside of Glasgow but counters that there are also violent gangs of white youths around... oh well, it's definitely a race issue then!
Samia's heard the excuses for the white gangs - class envy - that would resonate with you somewhat Terry wouldn't it?
But in Samia's mind the Asian gangs are not given the benefit of an excuse... well, we must be awful racist's right enough... not giving a bunch of thugs the right to an excuse.
Interesting that Samia is of mixed race with an Asian father and a white mother... got any friends with interesting tales from the other way around... White father, Asian mother?
Let's not pretend that the race issues are a one way street.
Let's not pretend that it's only Asian families who live in fear of the violence on our streets.
Let's not pretend that this sort of drivel:
I have campaigned in the south side of Glasgow and noticed the reluctance of Asian people to answer their doors and the number of Asian homes where heavy security chains are fitted to doors.
contributes anything positive to the debate.
(Anonymous) 13/02/08
I’m embarrassed to find that I share my Irish Catholic background with an anonymous knuckle dragging racist coward.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 09:23
The number of Asians involved in gangs is minute compared to the abuse that they have put up with for years - this is a classic example of a community hitting back at a society which has been brutal and racist to them.
Asian kids born here are no longer prepared to put up with what their parents and grand parents did.
That doesn’t make it right but it explains what is going on.
Let’s not pretend that you are anything other than a mindless bigot.
Anon
'Get a proper debate going if you want do not just throw insults!'
Can you state where I insulted you? I merely presented you with my views. Why do you assume I must be muslim? My mother was brought up a catholic, my father a sikh. They both agreed that they would allow their children to choose their own faith. I have chosen to remain of no faith because I do not believe in God. I'm no expert but I don't think that makes me a muslim.
'As an employee of the Council Samia mentions I can state she is talking nonsense about the "debt management profile " she quotes.'
Well reveal your identity and I'll show you the relevant files when I'm back in on Monday. See I'm trying to integrate -must be my white side coming out.
The Incorrigible Plagiarist
I'm not advocating making excuses for Asian gangs. What I get cheesed off with is people who sat back and did sod all for twenty years suddenly getting upset when Asian gangs spring up.
No friends but a cousin on my dads side is in just such a relationship.
Let's not pretend that the race issues are a one way street.
Let's not pretend that it's only Asian families who live in fear of the violence on our streets.
As someone of mixed race I am painfully aware of that.
I would also point out to both of you that I haven't called either of you racist. It's not a term I use lightly.
(Samia) 18:30
Samia - you sound very sincere and honest, please take my advice and don’t waste your time on people like this.
They are long gone, twisted, bitter, red neck racists. Probably BNP.
You will never change them and they will go to their graves consumed by hatred.
If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat it’s probably a rat. That describes them.
Your new "friend" Samia thinks this is her blog now does she!
Aye indeed.
I will see her in the "corridors of power". That is if she has a job more that an admin girly! Somehow I doubt it.
Thanks for your comments councillor. I'm afraid I'm still my father's daughter. When I used to come home from school upset because someone had made some remark about my colour, my mum would be off down the road looking for ears to box whereas my dad would always smile and say 'so what did you do with this opportunity?'. It used to drive me mad but I now see what he meant as so much racism is driven by ignorance.
I've experienced racism and prejudice from both sides in my life and I always try to make my case in the face of both. The only time I don't is when I feel my safety is threatened which used to happen a lot when I was younger but not so much now. Now it's just verbal and incidents that I'm never quite sure whether or not are down to my colour or plain rudeness.
It's not easy but I do my best to be like my dad and not react with anger, feel bitterness or hatred for the person. I try and see where they're coming from and see if I can correct any misconceptions they may have. If the person is racist that will soon show itself and then we can get down to brass tacks.
Of the commentors here I'm not sure that The Incorrigible Plagiarist is racist. There has been a breakdown of relations in the Southside mainly amongst young people which predate both Sept 11th and the Kriss Donald atrocity. Some of this can be put down to the social problems such as drugs, crime (a huge problem in Pollokshields) etc that afflict many communities but it's not the full answer. It is as if the decent sections of both communities have just turned their backs on each other and I wonder if this might be what The Incorrigible Plagiarist is reacting to.
Anon on the other hand I'm reserving my judgement on. His comments indicate that he appears confused by the terms Asian and Muslim and has certain prejudices in that area, however I hope he let's me know which council section he's in just now so we can meet up and talk this through, I don't want to put my contact details up here but if he contacts me through Lynn Brown's office and marks his attention FAO Sam I'll get it. He strikes me as being quite hurt and angry which is no state to live in.
Samia, a simple google search along the lines of "asian gang problem glasgow" will give you enough links to evidence that the people concerned about the Asian gang problems in Glasgow are as much the Asian community themselves. It's not that suddenly the white population have noticed Asian gangs and are upset with it, any more than they are with shell-suited neds of caucasian background.
The police had an operation planned to take measures against the Asian gangs, but found themselves hamstrung by their own political correctness and fear of the overly played race card. Prominent Asians in Glasgow have themselves voiced concerns that over-playing the race card, has indeed led to a situation where the police have failed to deal with the gangs for fear that they will be accused of persecution. There's no easy answer to this of course, but the Asian community has as important a part to play in that as the Police do.
Congratulatiuons, Terry, on attempting to ingratiate yourself to the Asian community with your apologism for their gang problem and displaying your ignorance of the actual issue... I know you find google (or reality) difficult, but the Asian gangs aren't necessarily fighting white racists, they're fighting one another - much like the tribal old firm bigots do. It's mindless thuggery that needs some strong medicine.
(Anonymous) 14/02/08
That makes it - cowardice, sexist, bullying, racism. Are you really Alf Garnett ?
Surely if you have a better job then the field is open.
(Samia) 15/02/08
I admire your tolerance and spirit but, I wouldn’t advise meeting these people their hatred is such that only their cowardice prevents them from going further than written abuse.
However faced with a young woman they might discover that they are quite brave after all, that’s what these people are like.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 09:23
You have already gone to far to start trying to be Mr. reasonable now - have you been re-reading the filth that you have already written.
I don’t have a problem with ‘google’ and I don’t have a problem with ‘reality and certainly not when dealing with the likes of you.
You have already gone to far to start trying to be Mr. reasonable now - have you been re-reading the filth that you have already written.
Direct me to one single thing I've ever posted on your blog that could be described as filth.
'Your new "friend" Samia thinks this is her blog now does she!
Aye indeed.
I will see her in the "corridors of power". That is if she has a job more that an admin girly! Somehow I doubt it.'
Well I don't see anything wrong with being an admin girly. However I haven't been one of those since my my part-time job at uni. I'm an independent consultant employed by Lynn Brown to help the council out with collections.
I don't think this is my blog. To be be perfectly frank I have better things to do. You can see me in any corridor you like, powerful or not someone will be waiting.
So anon what's your problem the fact I'm a woman or my race?
Either way, do let me know how I can contact you at the council. I'd love to know where you get your evidence. Give me the source and I'll add it to my report. Go on anon this is your chance to make a difference.
The Incorrigible Plagiarist,
I think we might be at cross purposes. What I am saying is that that there was a huge problem with white racist gangs in Pollokshields for years and no one gave a fuck. The the two worst gangs in Pollokshields are racially mixed but exclusively criminal. Oh and believe me the wee boys on the corner are all mouth the real gangs are invisible.
The point I am making is that no -one gave a toss when white gangs were rampaging about the shields, so why the moral panic about violent Asians? frankly they're more integrated than most decent, respectable Asians I know.
Personally I deplore violence and would like to see a crackdown on ALL gang violence. I'm just curious as to where you were 20 years back?
Nevertheless I hope your aversion to gang culture extends to gangs with white faces.
I think it might be helpful to one or two folk on this thread if they read the first comment I made.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 15/02/08
Based on your reaction to my article “poison of racism” I consider the tone and content of your correspondence to be tainted by racist attitudes.
Racism IMO equals ‘filth’ and in your case ‘the shoe fits’
Based on your reaction to my article “poison of racism” I consider the tone and content of your correspondence to be tainted by racist attitudes.
Racism IMO equals ‘filth’ and in your case ‘the shoe fits’
Didn't think you'd find even a single sliver of evidence to back up that assertion and lo, there we go, nothing.
Thankyou.
(Samia) 16/02/08
Samia - anyone who talks like this and does it from hiding is a coward, you are wasting your time on anon.
When addressing the problem of racism the ‘incorrigible plagiarist’ could only do so in terms of how terrible the blacks were.
That gives him away and again you are wasting your time he is one I’m afraid.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 18:12
I think you’ll find that you were only able to write about racism in terms of how bad the blacks were, you might not see the significance of that but I certainly can.
I think you’ll find that you were only able to write about racism in terms of how bad the blacks were, you might not see the significance of that but I certainly can.
Utter nonsense. I responded to a specific sentence in this thread, where you wrote...
I have campaigned in the south side of Glasgow and noticed the reluctance of Asian people to answer their doors and the number of Asian homes where heavy security chains are fitted to doors.
Implying that the Asian community in the southside of glasgow lived in fear of racists on the street.
My point being that such a comment clearly showed how little you know of the Southside of Glasgow or the issues facing the entire community.
In my mind you are no better than Nick Giffen, who tried and failed to make political gain out of an incident on the Southside of Glasgow. I'm proud to say that the BNP and their ilk were chased pretty quicksmart by the entire community.
I don't pretend that there aren't race issues, I've already alluded to that, but to try to turn the Asian community into some sort of victim here is counter-productive.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 19:34
“Implying that the Asian community in the southside of glasgow lived in fear of racists on the street”
That is exactly my point and still is and you are no better than these thugs, you are an apologist for them.
This is more of the same reactionary filth, ‘they are both equally to blame’ is a pathetic response and clearly shows you up.
That is exactly my point and still is and you are no better than these thugs, you are an apologist for them.
This is more of the same reactionary filth, ‘they are both equally to blame’ is a pathetic response and clearly shows you up.
Maybe Samia can help you out here...
Clearly you're not big enough to admit your own mistake and will simply stick with your personalised abuse, in the hope that something will stick...
"Direct me to one single thing I've ever posted on your blog that could be described as filth."
Incorrigible, anything you post in disagreement to His Socialist Eminence is regarded as "filth"
The point I am making is that no -one gave a toss when white gangs were rampaging about the shields, so why the moral panic about violent Asians?
Given that the point I've already made is that the Asian community are expressing concerns about the Asian gangs, I don't see why you're making out that the concern over gangs is somehow divided along racial lines. It's the entire community's problem, certainly not restricted to the Asian community.
iWitness story
My Asian friends have more fear of Asian gangs than they do of gangs specifically targeting them because of their race, so let's not try to go down the road of Asian's living solely in fear of racists in Glasgow... a la Councillor Kelly's fatuous insinuations.
Personally I deplore violence and would like to see a crackdown on ALL gang violence.
As do all right minded people, however, as I've already pointed out, the police have been hamstrung by their own political correctness and fear of the overly played race card. This is an issue of great concern. Note to Councillor Kelly: overplaying the race card cheapens it and has consequences beyond your petty attempts to smear.
I'm just curious as to where you were 20 years back?
Not sure why you're asking, but some memories from 1987-88:
Dating an Asian girl despite her families hostility, getting beaten up in a night club toilet by a gang (white) who recognised me as having gone to a different school. Having glasses thrown at me by Ranger's supporters (white) who decided I must be a 'tim' as I "wasnae one of them". Dancing like an eejit on level 8 of Strathclyde Union. Driving to Largs for fish suppers. Cycling round Cumbrae.
Discovering Munro Bagging...
Nevertheless I hope your aversion to gang culture extends to gangs with white faces.
You may be confident of that.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 17/02/08
Tell us again about those nasty Asian racists in Glasgow.
Tell us about racism in Scotland and how you manage to tell it in terms of Asian racists without mentioning what went on for years, go on have another go.
You shot your foot off, you are one of them, now, having been exposed you are wriggling about all over the place, what a coward.
(Serpico) 18/02/08
Racism is filth, that means I.P. and you obviously for defending him.
Go and re-read your post of Feb. 8Th. 08 at 8.25 am and see if you understand any of this.
Check with your friend I.P. if I was being anti European, it’ll be another test for him.
Tell us again about those nasty Asian racists in Glasgow.
WTF are you talking about Asian racists?
Let me go through it again for you in slow motion.
1. You mention heavy security in Asian homes in the southside of Glasgow as some sort of evidence that there is a prevailing atmosphere of racist abuse in the Southside, causing these people to live in fear.
2. I counter your point with the possibility that a bigger concern for the Asian community are the Asian gangs that run around with impunity.
3. You accuse me of being a racist coward.
4. I point out that playing the race card so quickly is part of the problem the entire community faces and is why the police have been afraid to simply tackle the problem head on, hamstrung by their own Policitcal correctness.
5. You call me a racist coward.
6. Samia agrees that the Asian gangs are a cause for concern in the 'shields' but also that she suffered racist abuse growing up in the southside.
7. You call me a racist coward.
8. Samia sees where I'm coming from in terms of the entire community, but wonders whether I fully appreciate how awful the racism she has encountered.
9. You call me a racist coward.
10. I try to clarify for you again, typing as slowly as I can.
11. You'll accuse me of being a racist again and complain that this post is too long...
Check with your friend I.P. if I was being anti European, it’ll be another test for him.
I'm all too familiar with your facetious sense of 'humour'.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 18/02/08
This is a classic " some of my best friends are Asians, Catholics, Jews"
You are like a dog returning to it’s vomit.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 19/02/08
You condemned yourself as a racist , and this and many other of your comments are far too long.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 19/02/08
God you’re in a bad way. Tell your wee pal Serpico if, I was as he thinks, being anti European.
If you can see through your hood and actually understand what I was doing maybe you could explain it to him.
You are like a dog returning to it’s vomit.
I hadn't considered the analogy, but your rants certainly come as close to literary dog's vomit as anything else on the internet.
This is a classic " some of my best friends are Asians, Catholics, Jews"
Yes I've seen that sort of defence being laughed at in the Sunday papers somewhere before... I think it was when some buffoon was being lambasted for publishing his "view" that all women were thick... What was the response again???
"Everyone who knows me knows that I am not sexist. I've lived for years with my wife and daughter"
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 20/02/08
Is that it ? Is that your argument then ?
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 21/02/08
I take it you’ve given this up then.
Put it down to experience, none of us are as clever as we like to think, but learn from it.
Because of your involvement in this spat you can’t reveal who you are can you ?
Because of what you have said, the ugly stance that you have taken, right ?
I take it you’ve given this up then.
Given what up?
My involvement in this spat?
You've mistakenly accused me of racism and have shown the world that you're unable to take in the bigger picture as well as not big enough to apologise for the unwarranted slur.
Sure I'm disapointed that someone who claims to share so many of my views, still clings to his blind party loyalty (as we agree on Trident, dawn raids, child detention, cash for honours and so many of the issues that the Labour party have failed to stick to their principles on!)
I had hoped that you may be using these blogs sessions as some means of actually testing points of view and improving your debating abilities, particularly now that you find yourself in opposition and the ability to courteously and rationally oppose the proposals of the ruling coalition might be useful.
I had hoped that by joining in these threads in the reasoned and respectable manner that I have strived to do, may actually have provided you with some food for thought and ammunition for where it counts, alas, you simply resort to insults and abuse. Like the boy who cried wolf, I'm sure the opposition simply close their ears when you start barking your empty rhetoric, as they'll have heard it all before, and it wouldn't have made sense then either.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 22/02/08
We have done all this, you are beginning to make a fool of yourself.
Again, it’s far far too long.
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