I have just discovered that a guy called Lord Ashcroft who is deputy chairman of the Tory party has been paying approx. £500,000 for TV adverts which condemn commercial whaling - well done that man, a Tory ! whatever next I'm tempted to say 'what's his angle' but that would be churlish.
Seriously, the world does not need to endanger these magnificent creatures and countries should unite to ban whaling entirely.
Meanwhile, by contrast an animal rights campaigner has eaten part of a Corgi in protest at the actions of our resident royal fool ( Prince Philip ) known to his friends as 'Phil the Greek' this octogenarian parasite continues to slaughter small creatures for fun, he's the proud head of a family so dysfunctional that they would all be the subject of a collective ASBO.
As a young man newly hitched to the Windsor gravy train he toured India and had the privilege of shooting a magnificent Bengal tiger, a team of Indian 'beaters' had tracked the tiger, caught it, then tethered this beautiful creature to a tree.
The brave handsome young prince then courageously approached the savage beast completely unafraid of what Blake called it's "Fearful Symmetry" and shot it dead from about three feet, had he missed it and shot through it's tether six other guns would have opened up on it, brave doesn't do our Phil justice.
Doesn't it make you proud to have the privilege of looking up to people like this ? "Did he who made the lamb make thee" for 'Phil the Greek' to shoot ye.
People who kill animals for fun should be locked away, starting with this cretin.
UPDATE - JUNE 4TH. 07- As if by magic we see the sickening pictures of Prince Harry ( the clever one ) posing beside a huge dead buffalo type of creature with his high powered rifle, carrying on the family tradition of killing for fun.
It's a depressing thought that we will be subjected to pictures and stories about Harry for years to come, being helped in and out of taxis dressed as a nun or a Nazi by burly body guards, drunk as a skunk and acting tough with the paparazzi.
The decision not to have him soldier in Iraq or indeed anywhere dangerous was greeted with delight by his body guards who didn't fancy going to Iraq with such a waste of space.
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The view from Left field, politics, entertainment, argument and insight into my world. For Socialism, peace and justice, against racism, sexism, sectarianism, nationalism and discrimination. Avanti Poplo!
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I represent Ward 4 Paisley North West. I'm a Socialist who believes in equality, peace and the redistribution of wealth, I oppose Racism, Sexism, Sectarianism, Nationalism and any kind of discrimination. Best wishes for a Socialist future.
What appears on this website are my personal views and opinions. Not those of the Labour Party, Renfrewshire Council or anyone else, mine only.
What appears on this website are my personal views and opinions. Not those of the Labour Party, Renfrewshire Council or anyone else, mine only.
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104 comments:
Nice racist language again Terry.
Was the corgi eater not a performance artist? I thought the guardian listed him as one. Good self publicity for him and by name checking him you have bought into his line as a good mark.
What was that tosspot who ate a corgi trying to prove after all we know the royals shoot animals, so how is eating another animal going to be a valid protest?
On the subject of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha clan, well yes were they less well off they would qualify for asbo's.
"a team of Indian 'beaters' had tracked the tiger, caught it, then tethered this beautiful creature to a tree."
I'm not saying you're wrong but 'I ha'e ma doots'! In the days before tranquiliser darts, how did you catch a tiger bare-handed and tie it up?
Again, well done Lord Ashcroft. You're a cynical old bugger aren't you Tel? By the way, that's a lot of venom. Am I assuming that Phil is the only one left in Britain shooting wild things? Seems like it from your posting. Lot of working class types I know like looking at beautiful creatures and then shooting them too.
God,
I have now had to agree with you twice terry.
I am taking psychiatric advice.
You are 100% correct
RFS - Calling Prince Philip 'Phil the Greek' is racist ? Well we are all in trouble then aren't we, you still don't get it do you ? That's what a CHILD would conclude and a CHILD would be right because a CHILD would know no better but you're not a CHILD are you ? So, what am I to think about your thought processes ?
What do you mean 'name checking him' I'm not familiar with that phrase, what did do ?
fido - I assume it was a dead Corgi and I think he may have been saying how do you like one of your loved animals being treated like this.
It's a stunt which seems to have worked quite well.
David Duff - 'to catch a tiger' I don't know how they managed it but they did, Tigers fought slaves in the Roman Coliseum so maybe they used the Roman method, they have been circus turns unfortunately for as long as, so maybe they used the circus way.
Maybe they had watched the Tarzan movies where a lump of meat is set out and the big hungry tiger leaps on it and falls into a pit or they corner it and throw a net, I've no idea. But they did it, it was in all the papers and caused a scandal.
Jim - 'cynical' sometimes ! 'Phil the Greek' as you say isn't alone but he is about as high profile as you can get, you may well have spotted some republican sympathies in my post.
anon - 'agreeing with me' yes, "the Lion can lie down with the Lamb but, the Lamb won't get much sleep" (Woody Allen)
You are indeed a poor little lamb Terry
"you may well have spotted some republican sympathies in my post"
I look forward to the post condemning the transfer of power from Fidel to his brother as 'monarchical', and 'undemocratic'.
Rumbold (nowhere else to write my name)
"you may well have spotted some republican sympathies in my post"
I look forward to the post condemning the transfer of power from Fidel to his brother as 'monarchical' and 'undemocratic'.
I agree, it was childish of me. Unfortunately the point I am making is that this is considered racist. Why? Because I said so.
Seriously, a friend of mine who is a Sgt in Lothian police, with a straight face, told me that in order for anything to be considered racist someone simply has to make a complaint to them telling them they felt it was racist. That is it!!! And it was the Labour government that brought that legislation.
I could make a complaint to the police that you have made a racist statement and they would be obliged to investigate it. I think that if the complainant then simply stuck to their guns the PF would have to take it to court. Such is the world we live in.
There is a word for that type of legislation.
anon - 'republican sympathies' what is wrong with Raul taking over from Fidel ? is that not what is happening with Brown and Blair ? what happened with Thatcher and Major, Wilson and Callaghan ?
rumbold - I'm baffled - read anon's post and my answer.
RFS - There is a word for this type of analysis - 'infantile'
The computer would not let me enter my name before.
British politicians who take over mid-way through a Parliament will face the ballot box at some point. I agree that the situation is not ideal, but at least the party in power has a mandate, even if the new prime minister cannot get a personal one until a general election. Raoul will face no election.
Are you suggesting that Gordon Brown should call an early election?
Or indeed the two Kims in North Korea.
I beleive the weakness in your argument is that eventually Major and Callaghan had to face the voters and it is something Brown will have to deal with.
Not so Raul. What does he have to fear from an election?
"But they did it, it was in all the papers and caused a scandal."
Not doubting your word but a reference and date would be useful.
"RFS - There is a word for this type of analysis - 'infantile' "
I think you will find that this is an attack on the person and not an attempt to refute the arguments put forward.
However I shall also note that your opinion is being devalued with every post.
Where do you stand on Inuit whaling? Crueler than industrial whaling, Not strictly nessesary on survival grounds, but an important part of the culture. A bit like Bull Fighting for spaniards or Fox-hunting for Rural English people?
Just playing devil's advocate...
Rumbold - same old CIA propaganda Cuba doesn't have elections, so what were all those millions of voters doing ? Over 90 % isn't a mandate then.
Why are the Americans so afraid of Cuba ? Come on !
RFS - See my answer to rumbold
David Duff - Can you not be a wee bit more gracious when you lose.
Try Google
RFS - I'm not finding this challenging any more - anyway I suppose if you say so, it must be Etc.
"same old CIA propaganda"
From that well-known CIA rag:
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,,938041,00.html
(It is only a small article on the jailing of dissidents).
"Over 90 % isn't a mandate then."
Not when you are the only candidate.
Jackart - no harm in playing the 'devil's advocate' the three references you make are all valid and I'm opposed to all of them - there are things which happen all over the world which are done because they are part of the culture of the place and some are quite appalling, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I have no hesitation in saying that.
Some cultures execute women because they have been raped, some execute women for adultery ( not men ) women get a bad rap. Should we accept that because it's their culture ? I say no.
Where whales are hunted for a peoples survival I would provide a different means of survival, I hope this eventually happens.
Torturing and killing animals for entertainment remains in my book beyond the pale and disgusts me, I hope this practice will stop eventually world wide but that's some task.
rumbold - this doesn't progress the debate - for every source you refer to showing Cuba in a bad light I can counter them with pro Cuba stuff I've done that before.
For what it's worth I've never said that Cuba doesn't have dissidents but, do we ? do America ? Israel ? Russia ? is it only Cuba who locks up dissidents ? what about torture do we or the USA get to cast the first stone ?
"For what it's worth I've never said that Cuba doesn't have dissidents but, do we ? do America ? Israel ? Russia ? is it only Cuba who locks up dissidents ? what about torture do we or the USA get to cast the first stone ?"
I think that Russia conducts herself disgracefully. So do America, Britain and Israel at times. Detention over a long period without trial is terrible, and the US ought to be ashamed of 'extraordinary rendition' and Guantanamo Bay. I will happily criticize all these countries' failings, so I do not see why you refuse to criticize Cuba.
Also, I have never called Bush, Blair, Putin or Olmert 'giants'.
Now who's being infantile? Quick pop quiz Terry. Can you name Castro's opponent in the last Cuban Presidential election? All 601 candidates proposed for the national assembly were elected unopposed. Terry, I don't know how to tell you this. That's not an election. Furthermore, the difference between the Labour succession and Raul's is that there WAS a choice for the party if enough MP's had had the cojones to take it. Not so for the Castro dynasty. By the way, 90%? Do you actually believe that? If so, why? I mean it wouldn't be in the best interests of a dictator who remains unopposed to make himself look democractic now, would it?
Councillor Terry, I will try my best to emulate *your* graciousness if and when I do lose but, so far, a search of Google has produced nothing to substantiate your accusation. I merely asked you for a reference, I never accused you of being wrong. The story is either true or false and I am curious as to which it is - that's all. So, please. a reference, if you will.
re the idiot eating a corgi, sorry but still no valid reason for eating a corgi or any dog come to that.
Just a cheap pr stunt aiming for shock tactics, besides how could anyone eat an animal that spends a lot of its time licking its own backside?
Oh dear, where does this leave me
I shoot grey squirrels, and rats, and rabbits, and crows ( should they perch protectively on the high branches of nearby trees).
My cat bags at least 1 mouse a day.
And i'm currently perusing the local badger situation,after the local set suddenly had 3 more residents.
I wonder what badger tastes like?
rumbold - I am happy to criticise Cuba in this respect, my point is that they are nowhere near as bad as the others, and they are doing a great job in the face of massive odds against them.
Jim - have you been listening to your American better half ? Where do you get this guff ?
America is clearly having some success with propaganda when it comes to you but, they don't need to try very hard do they ?
Wee pop quiz question for you Jim, why is the mighty USA so afraid of a tiny 3rd world country like Cuba ?
David Duff - What am I to make of you ? I didn't reference the story because of it's fame, it was 1961 I was 13 yrs old and I remember it vividly he has been hated ever since, he's a revolting, arrogant scrounger.
But what about you ? You searched 'Google' and found nothing ! I entered 'Prince Philip and the Tiger' and got 981,000 references so, can you explain ? Why should I deal with you if this is the way you behave ?
Fido - Don't shoot the messenger - he was protesting against animal cruelty and the royals are guilty as hell.
In the movie 'Hombre' Paul Newman plays an Indian who is asked by a disgusted rich lady if it was true that Indians ate dogs, he replied 'have you ever been hungry lady' she said 'are you suggesting that I would eat dog if I was hungry' 'yup' said the laconic Newman 'and you would fight over the bones' and so would you Fido.
old and angry - you must be a fierce man.
Cllr. Terry, I do not know why you , er, 'deal with me', as you put is so politely, only you know the reason for it.
Alas, we are all subject to the vagaries of our memories so you will not be surprised that yours has let you down.
"The honor of being the "invited gun" was to have gone to Prince Philip, [...]But Philip was out of action with a "whitlow infection" (more commonly known as a boil) on his trigger finger."
In fact, as opposed to your memory, it was Lord Home who eventually shot it, after several misses; but then again, it was not tied up, as you incorrectly remembered, it was racing around loose trying to escape. (Time Magazine, 10 March 1961 and thank you for helping me find it.)
As to Prince Phillip being "hated ever since", that seems unlikely given that it never happened. He may well be "a revolting, arrogant scrounger", as you describe, but I wonder if you could substantiate those accusations with rather better evidence than your original story which, like all calumnies, combined hopeless inaccuracy with scurrilous cowardice.
THE leadership of Glasgow city council is expected to be banned from holding office following a Labour investigation into local government misconduct.
A report to be presented to the party's national executive committee in London today recommends disciplinary action against nine councillors. The inquiry into the affairs of Scotland's biggest council, dominated by Labour, criticises the leadership for failing to set high standards of "personal and corporate responsibility".
The investigation was launched after Bob Gould, the leader of the Labour group, claimed that councillors were trading their political support in return for free trips. If the findings are accepted, he will be suspended along with Pat Lally, the Lord Provost, Alex Mosson, the deputy provost, Gordon Macdiarmid, the deputy group leader, and Jim Mutter, the parks convenor. Four councillors, Deirdre Gaughan, Elaine Smith, Heather Ritchie and Jim Sharkey, are facing expulsion. Another three have yet to be interviewed.
All nine members named in the report will be barred from standing in local council or Scottish Parliament elections. The national executive is also expected to recommend that a panel be set up to vet every trip taken outside the city. Last year, seven councillors had 46 foreign trips. Mr Lally, one of the best known figures in Scottish local government, visited Hong Kong, China, Calgary, Bangkok, Rome and New York.
The extent of the foreign travel undertaken by councillors was revealed shortly before the council announced spending cuts of £80 million and up to 2,000 redundancies. The inquiry is said to have uncovered a "cult of patronage" which allegedly involved the intimidation of council officials, votes being traded for favours, the misuse of taxpayers' money, and the abuse of civic cars. These details are not included in the report to the NEC, but were confirmed by a Labour source.
The councillors facing discipline refused to comment yesterday. Donald Gorrie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat spokesman, said Mr Lally should resign if he was was disciplined. Annabel Goldie, the deputy chairman of the Scottish Conservative Party, said Labour's tough action was negated by the fact that "for years they turned a blind eye to the disgraceful goings-on at the once-proud City Chambers"
25/9/97
Updated Council Political Composition following suspension of Glasgow Labour leadership from the Glasgow party: Patrick Lally (Castlemilk) Lord Provost of Glasgow, Robert Gould (Pollokshaws) Leader of Glasgow Council, Alexander Mosson (Anderston) Deputy Lord Provost of Glasgow, Gordon MacDairmid (Cowlairs) Deputy leader of Glasgow Council and James Mutter (Huchesontown) Parks and Recreation Convenor.
Four Glasgow Labour councillors have been suspended from representing the party at any level: Deirdre Gaughan (Ibrox), Elaine Smith (Bridgton), Heather Ritchie (Victoria Park) and James Sharkey (Penilee).
"Jim - have you been listening to your American better half ? Where do you get this guff ?"
It's called research Terry. I know it's not as much fun as just typing the first thing that comes into your head, but it's more reliable. You're letting your prejudices show again. My WIFE, FYI, is probably less anti-Castro than I am. LIke I said, by all means name me Castro's opponent in the last election. While you're at it, refute my assertion that all 601 candidates were returned unopposed. I say this in the knowledge that you won't, largely because you can't.
"Wee pop quiz question for you Jim, why is the mighty USA so afraid of a tiny 3rd world country like Cuba ? "
Pedantry perhaps but that's not a pop quiz. It's a request for an opinion. Frankly, I think as the years go by they get less and less obsessive about Cuba, but it's hard to let go of old habits. Does that answer your question? See terry, I answer your questions, how about you answer mine?
David Duff, he didn't reference teh story because he can't. Terry thinks the rest of us are numpties who don't know how to use the internet. He's wrong.
But what about you ? You searched 'Google' and found nothing ! I entered 'Prince Philip and the Tiger' and got 981,000 references so, can you explain ? Why should I deal with you if this is the way you behave ?
Clearly you didn't read any of the items it returned, becaue none in the first 30 bear any resemblance to your story.
What's your opinion on the Army visiting schools then, eh, Our Tel?
David Duff - The incident you refer to happened after Philip had already shot a Bengal Tiger it's not surprising that the Royal household would cover up the tawdry circumstances with the help of a sycophantic press but it did happen.
My remark 'deal with you' related to your claim that you couldn't find any reference to this on Google and it still stands, it rather looks like you were lying doesn't it.
You also tried to suggest, rather stupidly IMO that Tigers could not be caught without a tranquilliser gun, did you forget that one ? Do you still think that ?
Jim - Cuba has regular election turn outs in the high 90's and Fidel is the most popular leader that I am aware of with the possible exception of Chavez, I know that that, is an unpleasant truth for you and other American sycophants to swallow but IMO they have a more democratic country.
'Pedantry' no it doesn't answer my question so, why is the most powerful nation in history so afraid of it's tiny 3rd. World neighbour Cuba ? Care to try again ? David Duff said he couldn't find any ref. On Google to Philip shooting a Tiger, was that a lie ?
Anon - This is an old Scotsman report and is only half right, what is your point ?
anon - and ?
Plagiarist - this is a bit brazen for you surely - he said he couldn't find anything on Google about Prince Philip and a Tiger - you've slipped up here, showing your bias I'm afraid.
Cllr. Terry, this is becoming as tedious to me as it no doubt is to you.
First, I Googled key words pertaining to your story but failed to get a hit despite going to page 8. I then tried your suggestion, for which thanks, and came across the TIME story. It patently does *not* support your tale in any respect. The least you could do as a gentleman is apologise to Prince Phillip for the, er, mistake.
Also, the story makes clear that the tiger was *not* captured and was *not* tied to a tree. As was usual with tiger hunts, the beaters drove the animal to the clearing where, on this occasion, Lord Home failed dismally to hit it. All you have to do is own up to a faulty memory, a weakness we all share the older and dafter we get.
I have no expertise in the matter but common-sense tells me that capturing a live tiger without benefit of a tranquiliser gun would be immensely hazardous. Consequently, driving a mother away from its cubs seems a much better way to procure (more than) one. Again, if you can reference a site that reports tiger captures in the manner you suggest, I will be happy to concede.
Finally, you have yet to produce any evidence to suggest that Prince Phillip is "a revolting, arrogant scrounger". It may be that your last epithet, "scrounger", is based on the fact that he lives on the proceeds of the British tax-payer, but I would be careful before using that one because at the last count the UK was subsidising the Scottish 'parliament' to the mournful tune of £8.3bn a year. 'Mournful' to me, that is, because I live in England and am forced to pay it to people whom I might be tempted to describe as 'revolting, arrogant, scroungers', were it not for my good nature and manners!
jackart - 'Army recruitment in schools' I'm against it they are a bunch of liars who con vulnerable kids into joining.
The clever kids go to Uni. or on to careers leaving the less successfull kids to be manipulated by lies.
How would you feel if you were in any way responsible for putting a young man in harms way lead (horror of horrors) by a chinless dullard from the upper classes like Harry boy ?
you've slipped up here, showing your bias I'm afraid.
I hardly think it's a slip up Terry, I mean you're pretty familiar with my bias through our limited exchanges, but I do always strive to be fair.
As usual you've spun a story which deliberately puts a Royal in a pretty poor light - fair enough, that's your bias... however
David Duff actually said:
so far, a search of Google has produced nothing to substantiate your accusation
while you equate that with
he said he couldn't find anything on Google about Prince Philip and a Tiger
I did the same search as you did, and as I already told you, none of the first 30 stories even come near to substantiating your allegation...
David Duff - I'm not aware of the TIME story but at least one of the stories refers to Phil. Killing a Bengal Tiger before the incident you refer to so, I stick with what I said, I can assure you that it was 'the talk of the steamie' at the time, and , I've checked with friends and relatives who's response was something like 'aye he did shoot a tiger and didn't the big B - - - - - d have the poor creature tied up first'
There are stories of him and indeed Lord Home slaughtering Tigers, Crocodiles, Elephants and just about anything which can move. I'm not going to bother with how to catch Tigers I'm positive however that they were being caught long before tranquilliser darts, do you doubt this ?
OK - IMO Philip is what I said he was, others may well pick you up on the English subsidy of Scotland which I accept in general terms, I'm pleased to come across someone who shares my good nature and impeccable manners.
Plagiarist - come on now, do I need to 'spin' a story to show Phil. In a poor light ? Where have you been, this guy has done more than anyone since ( the child minder ) Richard the Third to turn people against the monarchy.
The incident you and he refer to was obviously not the one, if you check you will find that he did in fact kill a tiger prior to that in a previous visit to India - there is however a strange lack of coverage about it, and I think I know why.
At the time it was common knowledge and he was vilified for it I'm 58 and I remember it, maybe you could try asking someone of that age who might remember it.
Why would I make it up he is such an easy target that no one has to make up bad stories about him, surely.
come on now, do I need to 'spin' a story to show Phil. In a poor light ?
Yes, he is a very easy target. Still, I had a fantastic experience gaining my Duke of Edinburgh Bronze award and it often surprises people to learn that he is the International president of the Worl Wildlife fund having originally headed up the British chapter.
"Jim - Cuba has regular election turn outs in the high 90's and Fidel is the most popular leader that I am aware of with the possible exception of Chavez, I know that that, is an unpleasant truth for you and other American sycophants to swallow but IMO they have a more democratic country."
Firstly, Terry, I assume your source for these claims of 90% turnouts would be, oh I don't know, the Cuban government? Be that as it may, I took the liberty of looking up some definitions of the word 'election'.
a vote to select the winner of a position or political office; "the results of the election will be announced tonight"
the act of selecting someone or something; the exercise of deliberate choice; "her election of medicine as a profession"
the status or fact of being elected; "they celebrated his election"
You'll see from these definitons, that a prerequisite of an election is choice. Can you please inform me what choice of leader the people of Cuba are given? Never mind, I can tell you. None.
Now to democracy:
the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives
Given that it is required to have choice to have an election, which of the 601 representatives in the Cuban government are democratically elected? Will you refute my claim that none of them are, since they were returned unopposed or not?
'Pedantry' no it doesn't answer my question so, why is the most powerful nation in history so afraid of it's tiny 3rd. World neighbour Cuba ? Care to try again ? David Duff said he couldn't find any ref. On Google to Philip shooting a Tiger, was that a lie ? "
Out and out lie. David Duff did not say that.
Finally Terry, I know you'd love to goad me into threatening to kick your fat rear until your nose bleeds. That would be what passes for a victory in Terryworld. To be honest, it's tempting. What holds me back is the fact that I know I'm a decent human being. You're a fat lying slob who wouldn't know democracy if it bit yopu on your not insubstantial backside. That and the fact that you wouldn't exactly be a difficult target.
Care to name harrys bodyguards that fed you their story of relief at not going to iraq?
And why is the US concerned about cuba? If you had a neighbour who was only a foot tall and could not do a single press up but who tried to set fire to your house when you were at work would you be concerned?
"Cuba has regular election turn outs in the high 90's and Fidel is the most popular leader that I am aware of with the possible exception of Chavez."
The fact of the matter is Councillor, that when it comes to free elections, you have received more votes then Castro ever has, or will. That should make you proud.
Well, Cllr. Terry, I'm 68 and I can't remember it. Nor, oddly enough does it fit with the impression of the man himself and his background. Tying up animals and then shooting them is simply not done, old boy!
I think your desperate phrase "there is however a strange lack of coverage about it" rather sums up your dilemma. It just didn't happen, Cllr., so just be a stand-up man and admit your memory has played you tricks. Otherwise we might be forced to think that you are, er, "revolting" and "arrogant" as well as being, 'ipso facto', a Scottish "scrounger", and we wouldn't want that, would we?
Dear Terry I respect your beliefs as a socialist but do you mean that because I went to University if I died when I was a navel officer that my death would be worth less then one of the men I lead becasue he was of the lower ranks. My friend died in an accident I suppose thats ok because he was only a brother officer. I can not think of a single man or women I was in charge of that would agree with that kind of assesment you made of chinless officers. May i remind on the somme the person with the lowest life expectancy was a captain (measured in seconds) followed by a leuitenant the Private soldier was measured in minutes (both exceptionally bad and a loss of great men to early) regardless of rank.
plagiarist - did they make Phil. president of the WWF to stop him slaughtering endangered species ?
Jim Lewis - Anyone who talks like that must be a really serious hard case eh ?
RFS - 'Harry's bodyguards' no I can't name them, you see I made that up to have a sarcastic go at the ginger cretin that we all pay for.
I maintain that a child would have realised that but, you didn't and you're not a child are you ? Does this remind you of something ?
You are now saying, I think, that America is worried that Cuba might attack them when they are not looking.
I really do have my doubts about you, can you try a more sane suggestion as to why the mightiest country in history is scared of tiny little 3rd. World Cuba.
Rumbold - well, you are entitled to your opinion but I have to disagree, I believe that Cuba and Fidel represent the people far better than our so called democracies.
did they make Phil. president of the WWF to stop him slaughtering endangered species ?
Maybe or possibly his continued involvement in such honourable activities is to confound those lazy critics who prefer to deal with caricatures than the real world...
David Duff - Being 68 yrs old does not permit you to lie, did Philip shoot a Bengal tiger before the incident you refer to or not, and if he did, why is there not much written or said about it ? The truth please !
'Tying up animals and shooting them is simply not done old boy' Does that mean that those stories ( which you will no doubt deny ) about Royals taking their children including the dolts William and Harry on to the hill to shoot tethered deer to clock up their first kill, are simply not true old boy ? Is driving wild terrified animals, including tigers into the open where our brave royals are waiting to shoot them with high powered rifles the 'done thing' old boy, much fairer old chap isn't it ? No wonder we love and respect them so.
What do you mean about the 'image and background of the man' I would love to hear someone sing this guy's praises.
s-penketh - Any death is a matter of regret and no-one's life is more important than anyone else's.
My point is that the armed forces are still corrupt, I'm not saying that being an officer means you are de facto chinless or stupid but I believe that there is an inordinate amount of senior personnel who are well connected, like the cretin Harry e.g. His uncle Eddie is another example.
Lions led by donkeys ! We deserve better, talent and ability are being overlooked, it was ever thus, I'll grant you that it's not as bad as the Somme but it still stinks.
like the cretin Harry e.g. His uncle Eddie is another example.
Didn't Edward fail officer training with the Royal Marines?
Surely if it was all about connections, he'd have just sailed through...
"Jim Lewis - Anyone who talks like that must be a really serious hard case eh ?"
Well I suppose only you and me will know, since for the second time in this thread you have printed a reply to me without printing my post. But no, Terry, if anyone has an obsession with toughness it seems to be you. You do seem to use phrases like 'hard case' and 'tough' quite a lot. Me, I couldn't a give a monkey's. I'm sure you don't scare me and equally, as the Standards Commission will testify, there's not much chance of me scaring you.
By the way, well done. You've now gone longer, I believe, than in ay other thread, managing neatly to avoid the issue posed, namely how a country with no elections can demonstrably be seen as more democratic than one without. I don't suppose we'll ever get an answer, given that logically you're kind of backed into a corner. However, we can but try.
So if Scotland suffered a coup which placed a dictator in power, and he expelled all elected officials (including you), you would support him if his policies were superior to those of the SNP's?
Cllr. Terry, you have now sunk to the level of accusing *me* of lying, despite the fact that you have proved to everyone reading this thread that you are unable to substantiate the calumny you told concerning Prince Phillip. May I repeat, for your benefit, that it is *you* who made claims concerning Prince Phillip's method of shooting a tiger, not *me*. I merely doubted the veracity and, in retrospect, how right I was.
You ask, but I do not know why, "Is driving wild terrified animals, including tigers into the open where our brave royals are waiting to shoot them with high powered rifles the 'done thing' old boy" to which the obvious answer, even to the obtuse, must be, yes, because that is how it was done in those days. Possibly, given that you appear to be from plebian stock, your grandfather may have enjoyed hunting with whippets. Does that make him a bad man, or simply a man of his time and class.
However, now you perpetrate another 'story', to wit, "Royals taking their children including the dolts William and Harry on to the hill to shoot tethered deer to clock up their first kill". Could you please substantiate that with a reference, please? And do try harder this time, there's a good chap!
Finally, you write, "My point is that the armed forces are still corrupt". A severe and damaging accusation. May I enquire which regiment, squadron or ship's company you served with?
No Terry what a child would have realised was that you were passing speculation off as fact. It is basic Standard Grade English, something I only just passed.
"was greeted" would be something that someone would use if they wanted to mislead, this implies first hand knowledge or a primary source. I would have written it as "the news would no doubt have been received with delight". Do you understand the difference between the two statements? In the second one you are poking fun, in the first you are libeling. Again.
I had no doubt that the Met Royal Protection detail tell you nothing and that you made that up. I thought I would ask you to explain yourself and I have to say that I am surprised you did. But I suppose you know what they say about sarcasm?
And I would guess that someone with a slight grasp of history would have understood my story about the neighbours. What if the short man was given the petrol and matches by the bully across the street? Does that help you any?
David Duff - saying you were right doesn't make it so, or perhaps in your world old chap it does.
You appeared to say that shooting wild animals that are tied up was not the done thing but judging by what you said about that incident you seem to be saying that the method described, was the done thing, so that's fine then old chap isn't it, Philip would never do anything unfair or unsporting would he ?
Yes I am from plebeian stock ( well spotted ) but I don't remember whippets, I do remember rabbits being eaten though, I could be worse though I could have suffered the indignity and embarrassment of being Royalty.
The story about first kills is well known and I suspect you have heard it as well, also the one about Diana refusing to kill deer at Balmoral, you wouldn't be lying here would you old chap ?
'Armed forces' I've never served in any of them, thank god. I suppose that in your world that means I'm wrong and also that I can't comment on this ? Do you know that an average of 800 service personelle per year are dishonourably discharged from the armed forces for drug abuse ? Didn't it used to be gin they got ? And no I'm not going to source it I don't think I need to.
Did Philip kill a tiger before the incident you refer to ? If you can't find that reference then, I'm sorry old chap but, you are indeed a liar.
plagiarist - Prince Eddie ' the clever one, went to Cambridge despite being thick as a plank while really clever students got knocked back, even Harry isn't as thick despite his exam scandal.
Anyway I think Eddie chucked it and went home before they threw him out.
Jim Lewis - if I didn't print your post it was a mistake I can assure you I would never willingly censure you, no way, you're worth your weight in gold to me.
Jim I've remarked many times on how you use this tough guy language, I think you will find that you have been doing this for some time, I simply point out that it's silly, if you could fight people with your mouth you would be a world champion.
Cuba, I don't need to 'neatly avoid' anything, when it comes to what is a democracy and what isn't we will remain worlds apart, I'm satisfied that people in Cuba are far more involved in 'their' democracy than we are, or the Americans for that matter.
Talking about not answering questions I've been asking why the most powerful country in the history of this planet is so scared of it's tiny, heroic 3rd world neighbour Cuba.
Several of my hostile readers have tentatively mentioned some quite stupid reasons, RFS for instance thinks it's because America fears a Cuban invasion, (honestly he does) would you care to try again ?
Rumbold - I'm not sure what you are on about, if you mean Fidel I don't regard him as a dictator, he replaced an American backed dictator ( Batista ) and the rest, as they say is history.
Thinking of someone who's policies are better than the SNP's doesn't narrow it down much does it ? I would like someone like Castro to take charge here of course I would, but it would have to be a bloodless coup.
The capitalism that we live under is bad enough but it's not Cuba in the fifties.
So now we have a *second* story that "is well known", er, well known, that is, to Cllr.Terry but apparently not to anyone else and nor can any record be found of either of them.
Then we have a very serious accusation hurled at the armed forces to the effect that they are "corrupt". Asked to substantiate that with a fact or two, as he has never served in anything, anywhere, he comes up with a 'statistic' to the effect that 800 servicemen are dismissed every year for drug-taking. Readers must judge for themselves how much trust they can put into anything produced by Cllr. Terry, but whatever the figure is, surely it points to the fact that in that respect the services are very *un*-corrupt; in other words, the very opposite of Cllr. Terry's assertion.
So no change there, then!
RFS - This doesn't allay my fears about you, I do understand the difference between 'was greeted' etc. But is it really necessary for you to go into this ? As I said !
'The bully across the street' does not help me any and it certainly doesn't help you, I'll try again. Why does the most powerful country fear it's tiny 3rd world neighbour ? Never mind trying to muddy the water with metaphors which are 45 yrs old. Why are they afraid of Cuba right now, today, I'm waiting for an answer from any of you.
Perhaps a hint is due by now, Cuba is a success story that scares capitalists everywhere and America is the home of Capitalism. Cuba, lead by Fidel has made great strides and the USA might, just might be afraid of what it could achieve if the American bully allowed it to trade with other states.
What would the 40 million Americans without health care and the ordinary New Yorkers think of 18,00 homeless children in their city if they really knew about Cuba ? That's what scares them ! Ideas, socialism, equality, decency, that's why they are scared of Cuba and, the others in their backyard who are now standing up to them, more power to them.
David Duff - What happened to the 'old chap' old boy, are you not finding this funny any more ? I wonder why.
Did Prince Philip shoot dead a tiger prior to the incident you refer to or didn't he ? I think I've asked you that before, if you have an attack of the truth, I'm sure you will find that he did and, you can then try to explain why almost nobody remembers it until their memories are jogged. If you continue to ignore this or suggest that you can't find any reference to it then you leave me no alternative but to call you a liar.
If never having been in the armed forces means that you know nothing about them and you are not entitled to comment on them then, an awful lot of people are going to be out of a job aren't they.
What about all those MP's who fall over each other to tell us how wonderful our troops are from the same position as me, are they OK ? Is it only critics who suffer your lash ?
People like you are a danger to our forces, sycophantic royal crawlers don't make the armed forces better they, ( you ) weaken them.
I am beginning to worry for you, Cllr. Are you seeing things now, as well as imagining other things that never happened? I ask because nowhere, repeat 'nowhere', did I suggest that Prince Phillip had *not ever* shot a tiger, I only demurred at your patent falsehood, for such it was shown to be, that he did so in the manner in which you described.
Nor have you provided any evidence to support your calumny that wild deer were tied up for his grandchildren to shoot.
Nor did I suggest anywhere that you, or anyone else, were not permitted to comment on the armed services unless they had served; I merely asked in order to ascertain if you had even a miniscule amount of expertise and frankly, I guessed that you had none and I was right.
So, I think we can sum up this discussion by agreeing that you are a lying, slandering buffoon without even the courage to admit that you had made a mistake. I regret to say that I suspect your electors deserve you! I can only hope that some member, past or present, of a Scottish regiment knows where you live and might take the, er, 'debate' a little further!
Hi Terry
'I would like someone like Castro to take charge here of course I would, but it would have to be a bloodless coup.'
Is that because a bloodless coup would be more democratic than a bloody one?
Prince Eddie ' the clever one, went to Cambridge despite being thick as a plank while really clever students got knocked back,
Just because you say it, doesn't make it true, Terry. Every year there's some story about how clever state school lassie never got into Cambridge because overprivileged toff from Eaton got in... a load of cobblers. Cambridge wouldn't keep it's international reputation if that's the games it played in real life.
even Harry isn't as thick despite his exam scandal.
So, you've got some details on the relative IQs of the Royal family now? Don't suppose you'll be giving us any references for that either ...
Anyway I think Eddie chucked it and went home before they threw him out.
Despite his great connections, the Royal Marines officer training (after he'd completed his honours degree at Cambridge) was too tough for him, so he chucked it - doesn't correlate wonderfully well with your claim that the military is run by chinless wonders who progress through family connections.
When you get onto this subject I often wonder whether you've confused George MacDonald Fraser with an actual historian...
David Duff - I take it old chap if you are using language like this that you agree it's not funny any more is it ? My old man Pt. T Kelly 8th. Army North Africa Italy etc. etc. Taught me a lot about the British Armed Forces, as did many others. He also taught us that the moment that you descend to personal abuse is the exact same moment that you have lost the argument.
Getting you to tell the truth is like trying to put toothpaste back into it's tube but, you now accept that the events you refer to were after the great hunter had previously shot another tiger, well done that man ! now, give us the rest of it.
You hope some member of a 'Scottish ? Regiment who knows where I live will hurt me in some way' you really have lost this argument haven't you old chap.
Anyway, I'm easy to find whereas you ? Oh dear, just as well our forces don't have your courage isn't it.
scunnered - I know you enjoy these little games so, when Caetano was overthrown in a bloodless coup in Portugal which established Democracy.
Was that good or bad ? did you or would you have supported it ?
Did you or would you have supported the massively popular bloody coup which saw Batista overthrown by the great Fidel ?
Plagiarist - Cambridge is a bastion of privilege your belief in that system is touching - how many old Etonians was it at the last count in Cameron's shadow cabinet, do try to catch up.
How many high court judges, directors of banks, senior military people, captains of industry, senior civil servants etc etc went to Oxbridge, Eton etc. The system stinks, get real.
Have you ever heard Harry being interviewed ? Why not ?
MacDonald Frazer is far closer to reality than military apologists like you care to admit.
Hi Terry
I don't do violence in pursuit of my own ends. I wouldn't entirely rule out violence in the defence of others.
Portugal was one of the great triumphs of peaceful revolution, despite being led by the chinless wonders that we seem to see as infesting the military.
Given what they were coming from, aiming for, and got to, what's not to support about it? I was there recently and it was quite civilised. And it was on a par with many of the similar, almost bloodless, revolutions we have seen in the rest of Europe in the last decades
(I can distinctly remember contemporary TV coverage in which people were killed, so it wasn't entirely bloodless. Mercifully that was very rare)
Cuba?...couldn't pick a side there. Both had bloody hands, before and after. And the outcome, as most of your correspondents keep trying to tell you, wasn't democracy that is in any way recognisable under any normal definition - and certainly not akin to what was achieved in Portugal. Devil or deep blue sea territory really. Get rid of Batista? - laudable. Happy to end up with Castro? - laughable!
BTW, you said your dad 'also taught us that the moment that you descend to personal abuse is the exact same moment that you have lost the argument.' He was right.
"He also taught us that the moment that you descend to personal abuse is the exact same moment that you have lost the argument."
And you chose not to listen to him because ... ?
My old man Pt. T Kelly 8th. Army North Africa Italy etc. etc. Taught me a lot about the British Armed Forces, as did many others. He also taught us that the moment that you descend to personal abuse is the exact same moment that you have lost the argument.
I see. Did he have anything to say about approaching members of the public 'in a "threatening and intimidating manner" - regardless of the provocation;' or about calling people "village idiots" and "workshy incompetents"?
Scunnered - 'Chinless wonders was a ref. To our armed forces not Portugal's Cuba ? I asked if you did or would you have supported the revolution, you couldn't pick a side between Castro and Batista nuff said. You're right Cuba's democracy isn't like ours it's better.
My dad was right enough, I try not to indulge in personal abuse but I admit that I sometimes retaliate.
rumbold - you might find this strange but if you remove the times where I have 'retaliated' against personal abuse you will find that I'm not really that bad, I try not to do that but I sometimes hit back.
saussure - Pretty weak stuff here, I approached a guy who was hurling abuse at my daughter. Most parents would do the same, if you have any children I pity them.
If you think 'village idiots' and 'work shy incompetents' is bad you need to get out more.
Not what I think about it, Cllr Kelly; it's what the Standards Commission made of your behaviour that signifies, isn't it?
You should manage to rise above those whom you feel insult you. You are a representative of your constituents. This is not to excuse the behaviour of those who gratuitously insult you (I hope that I am not among that number), merely to point out that you should be holding yourself to higher standards.
Getting off topic here, re the army and them recruiting in schools, well I see no need for them to do that.
Same as any company if people wish to join well thats all well and good, but schools are not the place to be recruiting.
I would say the same if that was about a bank, any form of business in fact.
anon-a-mouse!
saussure - that's not much of a response is it ?
rumbold - absolutely, I shall continue to try.
seeing as you cite George Macdonald Fraser, was your old man the living embodiment of Pte McAuslan?
jackart - partly McAusland and partly big McGlinchey with a few others thrown in.
Why is eating whale meat any different to eating tuna?
RS
RS - A good if predictable point, never having eaten whale meat I don't know the difference (Sorry)
Tuna I suppose are not in danger of extinction like some whales, I don't think the whales are hunted as food are they ?
I have eaten good Norwegian whale meat, it tastes like fillet steak.
In Japan, on the whole, yes.
RS
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