Thursday, May 17, 2007

THE NEW WEST LOTHIAN QUESTION ! AND CHRISTIANS

"We, the SNP have the moral right to govern, we won the most seats" ( Alex Salmond ) so when is a moral right not a moral right ? well, if it's in West Lothian apparently where Labour won the most seats 14 to the SNP's 13. The SNP are now in power in a coalition, SNP morals ?

A big Christian rammy is going on in the Church of Scotland, should the clergy bless same sex partnerships ? threats are being made by some who say that ministers who do this will be dismissed, it's not just the Catholics and Muslims etc. who are in a mess over this.

The well known columnist Rev Ron Ferguson rises above this to say he will respond positively to anyone who asks for this blessing and if he is disciplined he will take the consequences, he has in fact reacted IMO in the way that Jesus would, well done that man.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Fair do's on that one, what someone does in the bedroom is their business and no one elses. The church and other religions need to move on a bit from the dark ages.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...

Further to that previous post, Terry, it was the Lib Dems who decided that SNP had won the moral authority to govern Scotland and it was them who having turned down the opportunity to be in coalition with the SNP also turned down the opportunity to form a coalition with Labour... which would have returned a Labour administration in the parliament.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

plagiarist - No way, I was quoting Salmond as you well know, he has kicked off by being duplicitous, if a one seat victory gives you the 'moral authority' why is he silent about the SNP all over the country who are now rulling councils without, by his definition the 'moral authority' it's gross hypocricy by the SNP and Salmond.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

anon - The Rev. Ferguson C. o S. and the recently deposed Rev Aitken C. o S.
( Labour leader of Edinburgh Council ) are showing a proper Christian example and showing sympathy and kindness to all.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


plagiarist - No way, I was quoting Salmond as you well know


That's funny!, Where's my first post where I pulled you up for exactly that. You're not quoting Alex Salmond at all. You're paraphrasing... AGAIN!

Alex Salmond said 'Labour had lost the moral authority to govern Scotland'

It was Nicol Stephen who said that the largest party had the moral right to have first stab at creating a coalition.

It was the Lib Dems who declined to go into coalition with anyone... which admittedly I find a bit strange given that they are keen to do so at council level.

Stanger still though, and you must surely be uncomfortable with this one, is the coalition in East Dunbartonshire... A Tory-Labour coalition!!! Whatever next?

Dunferino said...

Terry RE the SNP's one seat advantage, the SNP might have had more seats if it wasn't for Dougie Alexander's vote cockup...

Terry, what do you think of Douglas Alexander? Is he fit for purpose?

And Neil Kinnock's DRS computerised voting system, is that a good system to use in future? I work in computing myself, but I wouldn't trust them.

Scott

Rumbold said...

How would you decide who has the 'right' to govern in Scotland? There surely has to be some order of precedence when there is no first past the post system (which increases the chances of a party gaining an absolute majority).

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

rumbold - The party with the majority has the right to govern, you may not like that but that's democracy, unless you are going to change an elected member's right to vote the way they choose.

The SNP have the same right as anyone else to put forward bills and everyone has the right to vote them down, do you want to change that ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Plagiarist - We both know what this about why do you find it necessary to split hairs like this ? Is it so you can avoid the argument ?

I have been in Renfrewshire politics for 40 yrs and based on my knowledge of the SNP I would have them at the bottom of any list of coalition partners and even then I would rather govern without a majority.

As far as the Tory Party are concerned I have come into conflict with far more right wing reactionaries in nationalism than any where else.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


Plagiarist - We both know what this about why do you find it necessary to split hairs like this ? Is it so you can avoid the argument ?


I'm not splitting hairs Terry. You've used quote marks and are claiming to be quoting Alex Salmond directly. We both know that you're not actually quoting Salmond.
It's called paraphrasing.

It doesn't make sense. It fails the merest hint of rigour and leaves your argument empty.

As far as the point you're actually trying to make, which, if I decipher you correctly, is that you're a bit miffed that the Lib Dems have put SNP in control of Renfrewshire. It would be valid, if only Labour weren't trying to pull exactly the same stunt all over the country.

You don't need to tell me that 'new Labour' have more in common with the Tories than anyone else, I just thought you held onto the more decent Labour values of a seemingly bygone age.

PS Apolgies if this repeats, my browser gave a strange message

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Plagiarist - OK do us all a favour and accept that there is an argument which is saying that the SNP have the moral authority to govern at Holyrood while doing something different elsewhere, that's hypocrisy, I'm not claiming any moral authority and I wouldn't form a coalition with any of the opposition.

I don't know if you are being disingenuous about Labour and Tory but it sounds like it. If you knew anything about Renfrewshire politics you would understand my remark. Consider this, George Reid patrician style SNP speaker at Holyrood said, on being told that ex SNP leader in Renfrewshire McFee had been elected to Holyrood, and I paraphrase, "he's a tackety boot politician" maybe that remark, from his own side gives you a flavour of the SNP in Renfrewshire. Some say he jumped before he was pushed at Holyrood, by the men in grey kilts.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


OK do us all a favour and accept that there is an argument which is saying that the SNP have the moral authority to govern at Holyrood while doing something different elsewhere


There would be, had the SNP actually said what you say they said. Truth is they (he) didn't though.

You (Terry) may or may not have formed a coalition, but I thought you said in an earlier blog that Labour had in fact made overtures to the Lib Dems and were turned down.

I don't know what a 'Tackity boot' politician actually is, but given the 'hard men' valedictories you gave to your retiring friends on the council (jumped before pushed, councillor? ;-)) It does seem like it's the sort of attriubute required in Renfrew's council chambers.

BTW the man in Grey Kilt... brings back Jack's cringeworthy performance in that New York waste of taxpayers... ahem! Tartan week extravaganza...

Rumbold said...

"The party with the majority has the right to govern, you may not like that but that's democracy".

In your article you seemed to indicate that the SNP had no 'moral' right to govern. If you meant by that comment that simply because they won a simple majority in the Scottish parliament, that they could govern at a local level despite lacking a simple majority, then I completely agree with you. Perhaps I misunderstood, and thought you were challenging their right to form a government at 'national' level. My apologies.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

rumbold - sorted

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

plagiarist - This is really tedius OK the SNP said, I think, "Labour do not have the moral authority to govern" do you think that possibly they meant that they did have that authority ? Are you following this ?

Labour, here in Paisley did make overtures to the Lib. Dems. Which I opposed, I think the Lib. Dems in Holyrood ruled out any coalition. I wouldn't deal with them there either, but I don't run the Labour Party.

Jacks grey kilt ? I cringed and hid until someone showed me the photo of Salmond in America in his kilt and cowboy hat, he saved Jack's bacon, it was as bad as his famous cringe worthy 'Jimmy Wig' Glass houses anyone ?

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


This is really tedius


I realise accuracy isn't everyone's forte...


OK the SNP said, I think, "Labour do not have the moral authority to govern" do you think that possibly they meant that they did have that authority ? Are you following this ?


I appear to be following it too closely for your comfort.

What I took it to mean, was that after 55 years of a massive Labour majority in Scotland, which IMO gave Labour the moral authority to govern Scotland (denied by Tory rule from London), Labour had now lost that moral authority and that the SNP had won the confidence of enough voters to be considered a serious alternative.

"There may well be Labour Governments and Labour first ministers in the decades to come but never again will we see the Labour Party assume that it has a divine right to rule Scotland."

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Plagiarist - if you're following it then you are avoiding it.

These SNP lines about Labour having a 'divine right ' and denied by London rule is just sound bites it means nothing and isn't a credible argument, but the Nats. Have used it to lie to people.