The above title words are what I would say to those who come here looking for work and a better life - I say the same to asylum seekers about whom so many lies are told, the reactionary right scream 'Britain is a soft touch', while the official statistics tell us that over 80% are refused. What they have to endure while waiting to be refused and, the way they are taken into custody and incarcerated brings shame on this country.
Many of these migrants are young, fit, skilled and willing to work as well as pay taxes while actually being denied most benefits, unemployment levels are unchanged, again giving the lie to the reactionary yells of 'taking our jobs'
The right wing try to demonise people and stir up fear and the gutter press encourage them.
I believe that we are better than this and we should start by treating asylum seekers like human beings as a matter of urgency - whatever the circumstances there is no excuse for dawn raids which cause fear and alarm to families, particularly with young children.
Surely we can start by sorting this out ? write to MP's MSP's etc to urge change - don't be tempted to use or exploit the situation like Rosie Kane of the SSP. She pulled the stunt of taking some asylum seekers into her home in a blaze of publicity and she cheapened herself and the whole issue, with friends like that etc. etc.
Evil people deliberately fuel hatred against these minorities for their own twisted ends and we all have to be vigilant in defence of what is decent, otherwise how can we as a society claim to decent and just ?
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40 comments:
Haven't Labour been in Power for nearly 10 years now?
You'd think they'd have done something about this!
Is it the Labour government who are still using dawn raids and the detention of children?
I like a lot of what you say big man, but none of it really seems to match up with the policies of the modern Labour government, which you seem so supportive of... you've got me confused.
Any chance you could clear up the position on Trident, immigration & child detention. I don't understand how you can continue to support an organisation so at odds with your firmly held beliefs.
Interesting. For once some semblance of thought. Not much, of course, and it is only an illusion, but repeatedly fisking you seems to be having a positive impact.
However, on with the work.
Britain, with its comprehensive social welfare system, is a "soft touch" for those who wish to be paid not to work, in direct comparison to most of our European colleagues and to the USA.
Historically, Britain, with its links to Empire and Commonwealth, has made it relatively easy for immigrants to come here and, at times, has positively welcomed them. That would be what you deride as "soft touch", then, wouldn't it. Just to evidence it, rather than merely assert, consider the difference between the way we treat Polish citizens looking for work compared to German and France.
It is the current Labour government, the party of which you are a member, that started putting them in prison camps. It is hardly the fault of us members of the reactionary right-wing conspiracy that the current bunch of ministerial half-wits wouldn't recognise a principle if you wrapped one around a half-brick and repeatedly smashed them in the face with it.
Don't try to confuse us by mixing your discussion of asylum seekers and economic migrants - a typical tactic of the moronic of both right and left. We have international treaty obligations to asylum seekers - which the current Labour government, mendacious cretins that they are, are refusing to honour.
How we deal with economic migration should be dependent (except it isn't really - the EU takes a lot of that away from us) on the current economic conditions of the country. Unrestrained immigration, in a country as crowded as ours, and with significant structural economic flaws is not the panacea for all ills you make it out to be.
Oh, as a mild diversion, I am sure you wouldn't mind me pointing out that some economic migrants tell tiny little fibs at immigration, or when apprehended, and pretend to be refugees? Note also that this is different from stating that all refugees and asylum seekers are economic migrants. That is not my opinion.
I actually agree with you that the tactics being employed by the agents of the current Labour government in dealing with failed asylum claims are despicable. I do hope you are making clear in your campaigning just how wrong you feel Labour are in this and in so many other ways and letting people know that they should use this opportunity to vote to send a pointed message to Gordon Brown.
anon - Ten years is right and we have also done a lot of good.
The Labour Govt. are responsible for dawn raids etc. And it's shameful.
My views on Trident, immigration and child detention are well known and I can assure you that I'm not alone.
There is no great mystery here, I'm a member of the Labour Party '40 yrs' and I have won and lost battles all along the line and I have been so angry sometimes that I have been on the verge of quitting. I then ask myself who would be happy if I left ? And I carry on.
You can probably guess that some members would like me to go away and I feel the same about them.
The policies and beliefs that sustain me will, IMO only ever be realised through the Labour Party, if I was not convinced of that I would leave, there is no alternative for the left, the more true socialists who join the party the better our chances are of success.
S - E - you are a difficult person to like, not much semblance of thought here I'm afraid, more a collection of ignorant prejudices which sound like a SUN editorial.
If Alf Garnett had been given a better education he would have turned out just like you.
Anyway I have a way of arriving at how I think we should treat immigrants and asylum seekers to these shores.
I think of all my loved ones, relatives and friends who have emigrated over the years to various countries and I try treat our immigrants and asylum seekers in the way that I would like my own to be treated.
Rocket science eh ?
I think the only reason you support mass immigration is that you think it will annoy we right-wing bloggers, and get us to admit what you believe: that we're all racist.
Well it won't work, it's socialists like you I hate, not polish chaps who come here to work.
Most of us bloggers fisking you daily are libertarian types and loathe the daily (hate) mail as much if not more than you.
The Labour leadership, john reid especially appears to be Dog whistling to the core vote, talking about "economic migrants undermining the minimum wage". That's racism dressed up as principle if ever I saw it.
Racism's in your camp, old bean; not ours.
Ta'ta for now Tezza, Pet.
S-E - What you have written down to your last para. Is the same repetitive nonsense as always, are you trying to bore me into submission ?
You then return to previous questions about, my work history ? Shares and buying council housing, try being clearer about what you want to know, from memory I said I left school in 19 63 and I've had too many jobs to remember them all, If you want to know about my house, you have my details and I state on my profile that I own Transco shares but, I also stated that you don't quite understand that either.
I don't dish out insults I sometimes respond to them and I don't tell lies.
So would you like to try again and give us all abreak by trying to make it understandable.
You posted that comment (4:12) on the wrong thread. Try again.
It makes even less sense here than it would do in context.
S-E
If you were a bit smarter you would not use the phrase "most of us bloggers" do you meet in a telephone box ?
Are you against Reid because he's too soft ?
Try to write something interesting, Please I'm getting bored and I don't want to be accused of deleting anything.
S - E - OK but I'm leaving it where it is, if you can get away with writing unintelligible dross I'm going to do the same this time.
Would that all arrivals to these fine shores where like the Poles, they all speak English and are willing to learn it if they dont.
My home town has a lot of them and every one I have met- even if they are not working- is looking for work here and they will do almost any damn job. Shame I can not say that about a lot of UK citizens.
Oh and I find they are a lot more polite than many of our home grown people to, seems that manners matter to the Polish.
As for some of the others(illegals who live on benefits and yes there are a lot of those down my way as well) well I have to say that I care not a jot about them. Shame we cant replace them with the Polish.
Dear readers,
If you haven't got the foggiest clue what Terry and I are burbling about, I have tried to explain here.
S-E
anon - ill informed racist.
I think you will find that Anon is speaking from personal experience. That would give them more than enough experience.
For my part I have found those Eastern Europeans I have had contact with to be industrious and pleased to be here. I have to say that I have never had knowing contact with any illegal immigrants and so I reserve judgement at the moment except to observe that the laws of the land should be observed and enforced.
Visas and work permits please
The above words are what I would say to those who come here looking for work and a better life. To genuine asylum seekers - rather than those people who abuse our asylum system as a means to stay in this country without good reason – I would say, here you have found safety. Please be part of our society and contribute to making this country a better place.
Official statistics tell us that over 80% of asylum seekers are refused. This is because their stories do not add up and investigations show that they do not have a just reason to use our asylum laws to enter Britain. Despite this, a very significant percentage are given indefinite leave to remain because it is easier than trying to remove them from this country.
Many of the migrants are young and fit, but many are unskilled and only capable of offering cheap labour to an economy that already has sufficient cheap labour. Unemployment has risen. A lot of the jobs being created are in the state sector, paid for by tax receipts from employees and businesses that compete in the market and create wealth.
Many jobs are being created to service the growing population resulting from the migration to these shores. But more migrants are arriving than there are jobs available. There is no doubt that motivated migrants who are enthusiastic about getting work, such as the Polish migrants, are going to have greater success in finding work than someone from this country who is not really bothered to make an effort to secure a job with relatively low pay – hence the catcalls from the uninformed that migrants are taking British jobs.
However there is evidence from Southampton and other places that some firms are laying off casual British labour and replacing it with cheaper east European labour.
We should clamp down hard on bogus asylum seekers without delay, so that resources to support genuine asylum seekers are not depleted. Genuine asylum seekers should be given more help to settle and contribute to this country.
Surely we can sort this out? Write to your MPs, MSPs, MAs etc. and urge them to put pressure on the government to remove bogus asylum seekers, rather than giving them leave to remain and allowing them to take money and resources that should be used on people genuinely fleeing persecution.
Urge your representatives to insist on effective use of work permits and visas to ensure we only give the right to work to migrants who have a skill that is in short supply. Ensure that casual labourers are welcomed for seasonal work, but that they must return to their country of origin if their contract comes to an end and they have not found alternative employment within a matter of weeks.
It is not acceptable to have an open-house policy that does nothing to dissuade unsuitable migrants and does nothing to provide the appropriate infrastructure the country needs to function effectively.
Political opportunists deliberately fuel hatred against people who put common sense and the wellbeing of the country ahead of political dogma. They pander to the extremists by refusing to accept a just approach to immigration matters. They seek to use minorities as a stick with which to beat their opponents for their own twisted ends.
Britain should be a welcoming and decent country with a fair and just society. It should be strong enough and confident enough to put the interests of its citizens ahead of fears of being labelled racist by opportunists for simply wanting to enforce proper border controls.
tony - your post fills me with depair your attempts at sounding reasonable don't hide your sinister attitudes one bit.
It's the same old reactionary poison and prejudice which makes decent people recoil from your type, and it's far too bloody long !
RFS - You think anon. speaks from experience ? how so if he's anonymous ? I think he just sounds like a typical biggot.
Is he not Always anonymous ?
"You think anon. speaks from experience ? how so if he's anonymous ?"
Ah, you are confusing identifying yourself with everything else in the world. What about those anonymous tip offs the police get about crime? Crimestoppers? How about your shop-a-dealer campaign? Does everyone who provides information there identify themselves and leave contact details?
This person could not be bothered to think of a name so selected the anonymous option to post. You don't like it? Well then turn off Anonymous posting on your comments.
"I think he just sounds like a typical biggot."
Do you not agree that by using they phrase "typical bigot[sic]" that you are in fact grouping all bigots [sic] together and assigning them common personality traits? In which case is this not bigoted [sic] of you? Of course if you have met every bigot[sic] who lives or ever has lived then I apologise.
RFS - If anon has said something which makes you think he speaks from experience then I've missed it.
The rest is your usual drivel.
Anon said: "My home town has a lot of them and every one I have met- even if they are not working- is looking for work here and they will do almost any damn job. Shame I can not say that about a lot of UK citizens."
You have said: "I'm pleased to report though that, ( like Mark Twain ) reports of the death of the Labour Party are an exaggeration, when we get the chance to talk to the electorate we are addressing their concerns and we are in tune with them"
What is the difference between these two statements? Apart from the fact that one neatly fits in with your world view and the other does not?
If I am wrong then what would be the threshold of proof for personal experience to allow you to accept it?
Terry, face it, the term "typical biggot[sic]" is an oxymoron. By using it you have shown a bigoted mindset. You are too easy.
RFS - What does it say about a person's 'mind set' when they are prepared to accept an opinion without evidence from an anonymous source which happens to agree with theirs ?
Terry - I challenge you to tell me what I have written that is in any way unreasonable or where my posting displays any sinister attitudes.
Rather than just resort to kneejerk retorts and name calling, examine the text and tell me where my argument is sinister or anything other than measured and reasonable.
I also challenge you to tell me where anything I have written is 'reactionary' or 'poisonous'. Please explain also what exactly what my 'type' is.
In anticipation...
It is not evidence it is opinion. That is the difference.
Tony - Consider the following :-
( 'They are cheap Labour' who are causing unemployment. - 'They' by increasing immigration, are getting state jobs created for 'them' paid for by people like 'you' the wealth creator. - There are not enough jobs available. - There too many feckless Brits who don't want to work. - British jobs are going to cheaper East European labour. - We should clamp down hard on bogus asylum seekers who take our money and resources. - We should only allow immigrants who fill skill shortages. - We should allow seasonal casual workers and then force them to return when the seasonal work is over. - We do not find it acceptable to have an ' open house policy ' - We should 'dissuade' unsuitable immigrants. - ' They ' disrupt our infrastructure and stop the country functioning effectively. - Political opportunists ? (me) fuel hatred against people ? (you) who put common sense and the country's well being before political dogma. - People like me refuse to accept a ' just approach ' - People like me use minorities as a stick to beat opponents for 'twisted ends' - and last but not least -------------- BRITAIN SHOULD PUT IT'S CITIZENS 1ST. AND NOT BE AFRAID OF BEING CALLED RACIST ! )
Well Tony what is your type ? As I said, a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British, that's your type.
Well Tony what is your type ? As I said, a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British, that's your type.
Terry, any chance you could explain to us the difference between Tony's sinister, reactionary, knuckle dragging, racist viewpoint and that of the LABOUR Home Secretary Dr. John Reid?
I am most certainly not a racist. I sincerely hope Terry that you will issue me with a deserved apology for your disgraceful comment. I hope others will note that your comment paraphrasing does not quote me, but twists and misrepresents what I have said in an unacceptable manner.
I give you this opportunity to withdraw your remark and apologise. If you do not then I will be forced to take advice about dealing with the unwarranted and disgraceful accusation you have made in your attempt to slur my good character.
You know what Terry? I do not need or want an apology. For a moment I was forgetting my own Christian values.
Any man who can call a white European 'racist' for disagreeing with the immigration of erm, white Europeans, unless they have a visa or work permit to come here and fill a skills gap, needs compassion and professional help, not punishment.
Your constituents and other people reading your comments will draw their own opinion of you for playing the racism card because your argument was non existant. People who suffer from racism will notice how you undermine a vile form of behaviour by throwing the term around like confetti.
Your moronic mindset and foil hat mentality only plays well with other fools. Normal people can see through your abusive manner. They can see that you resort to insults to compensate for being devoid of any original or rational thought. Like them, I pity the people who voted Labour and got you for a Councillor.
tony - thank you for those measured comments, you should check up on racism before talking such poisonous drivel.
tony - go to it, show your lawyer your last post.
anon - tony's type ? I can only conclude that you are either unable or unwilling to read and understand the filth that ' tony ' tries to peddle in a 'reasonable' way.
anon - tony's type ? I can only conclude that you are either unable or unwilling to read and understand the filth that ' tony ' tries to peddle in a 'reasonable' way.
Was this really your response to the question that asked you to compare Tony with Dr. John Reid?
Maybe you misread the question first time around?
I'm asking you to show how Tony differs from Dr. John Reid, the Labour Home Secretary... Do you need me to tell you about him? or will you be able to google it for yourself?
anon - I take it then that you agree with my opinion about Tony.
With the proviso of course that in your squalid world, two wrongs do make a right.
With the proviso of course that in your squalid world, two wrongs do make a right.
My squalid world?
squal·id
–adjective
1. foul and repulsive, as from lack of care or cleanliness; neglected and filthy.
2. wretched; miserable; degraded; sordid.
As a council tax payer of this parish, I have to concur with your description. When you going to do something about it Councillor?
Or rather, and for the third time of asking,
I'm asking you to show how Tony differs from Dr. John Reid, the Labour Home Secretary...
Maybe I've missed something though and the lack of adequate response is because you think that Dr. John Reid, the Labour Home secretary, is also "a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British"
anon - on racism, bringing John Reid in to this does not alter what tony is and what you are for supporting him.
Anyone who supports or makes excuses for the tony's of this world is indeed squalid, and no amount of attacks on Reid makes you any different, try addressing that.
anon - on racism, bringing John Reid in to this does not alter what tony is and what you are for supporting him.
I've neither supported nor berated Tony. I've simply asked you to compare and contrast his attitudes with those displayed by the current Labour Home Secretary.
Stop trying to guess what I think about Tony or John Reid and tell me what you think about John Reid - the LABOUR home secretary. Labour being the party rosette that gets you elected in Paisley. John Reid being the man chosen to steer LABOUR government policy on immigration.
Is he, John Reid, also "a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British" ?
Anon - you are in danger of being deleted - we both know what you are up to and it's not very subtle.
It's quite clear that you are more interested in damaging Labour than trying to damage racism, did you fail to get a Labour nomination by any chance ?
You are far more sinister than Tony, at least he's not hiding.
Anon - you are in danger of being deleted -
AGAIN??? What is your policy on this?
we both know what you are up to and it's not very subtle.
It's not intended to be subtle.
I'm simply asking the same question until you answer it, but you won't, and now I'm almost enjoying your squirming, I wonder where we'll go next?
You've already tried the "anonymous poster - what are you hiding from / you're sinister" line - I'm not falling for it, so we'll carry on.
Maybe you'll use the old "If you can't say something original / interesting" line.
Perhaps you'll just go straight into offensive mode in the hope that I'll forget the original question whilst we fight the straw man that you'll construct, before you call me a waste of time.
Highly unlikely is the possibility that you'll concede that the current Labour home secretary is driving UK government policy in exactly the way that Tony would like it to be, the way that you described as coming from someone
who is "a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British"
Of course, I've made this long enough to give you the old "Too long and boring" get out, will you go for it I wonder?
The saddest bit about it all is that we probably agree with one another...
anon - you continue to hide and continue to manipulate and use asylum seekers and I will continue to publish you.
You're not enjoying this as much as me, this gives me the chance to let people see the kind of squalid characters that are out there.
I rejoice in the fact that you hate Labour, we must be getting it right.
anon - you continue to hide and continue to manipulate and use asylum seekers and I will continue to publish you.
So I'm not in danger of being deleted then?
How have I manipulated asylum seekers? I've asked you about Dr. John Reid's, and therefore the Labour party's, treatment of asylum seekers.
You're not enjoying this as much as me, this gives me the chance to let people see the kind of squalid characters that are out there.
Now I'm a squalid character?
Oh yeah! That'll be the insult, OK.
Nothing to base that on, just the fact that I've asked you an awkward question, which you squirm before and refuse to address... I'll take my chances with anyone reading this as to whether I've demonstrated dubious character.
I rejoice in the fact that you hate Labour, we must be getting it right.
How do you come to that conclusion?
It's you who publishes the anti-Labour agenda. Tony seems to me to be pretty close to what the current Labour government want to implement, and yet you've described him as "a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British."
anon - I've already done this and I'm getting bored by it so this is the last time.
I believe that your hatred of Labour for whatever reason ( lack of promotion in the party probably ) is what drives you.
You will use anything, and anybody to damage Labour, that's what this is about, with friends like you the asylum seekers don't need enemies.
anon - I've already done this and I'm getting bored by it so this is the last time.
The bored bit - tick
I believe that your hatred of Labour for whatever reason ( lack of promotion in the party probably ) is what drives you.
The straw man - tick
You will use anything, and anybody to damage Labour, that's what this is about, with friends like you the asylum seekers don't need enemies.
Focus on the straw man, ignore the original point - tick
A simple question. Do you think UK (Labour) government policy is closer to your ideals or to what Tony so reasonably suggested - before you called him "a sinister reactionary, a poisonous knuckle dragging racist, a man who makes me ashamed to be British." ?
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