Wednesday, March 07, 2007

MISTAKE

I've managed somehow to print the same article twice ( COUNCIL MEETING )I removed one of them and sent I think, two comments to the deleted version which have now been lost, I'll get accused again of not printing comments. I invite them therefore to resubmit and they will be printed.

61 comments:

Surreptitious Evil said...

I believe that one of the comments may have been my note to you telling about the double post - hardly a matter of substance.

S-E

Kay Stopforth said...

My comments went walkies.

1. You have been exposed a liar in remarks you made about the SSP

http://terrywatch.blogspot.com/2007/03/terry-and-ssp.html

2. You are a bigot

http://terrywatch.blogspot.com/2007/03/terry-fighting-bigotry.html

3. You are omitting important FACTS about the Seedhill playing fields

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.hicks3/index.htm

http://terrywatch.blogspot.com/2007/03/labours-real-record-on-sport-in.html

http://terrywatch.blogspot.com/2007/03/labours-rotten-sporting-record.ht

5. You are a closet Thatcherite. You own shares and bought up valuable council hosing that could have been used by others once you'd left it. Instead it well swell the Kelly's pockets.

6. You are a bully and a moron.

7. I pity your daughter for inheriting your looks and brains.

8. I will never vote Labour again.

9. Feegie has suffered enough. If you have a shred of decency you'll resign.

10. You support racist immigration policies, homophobia, sexism and war by your very presence in the Labour Party. Your silence speaks volumes. I've read your blog and not once have you posted about your own parties failings. You are a liar and a phony socialist.

**********************************
I have saved this comment this time so you cant wriggle off the hook.
***********************************

John Knox said...

Fuck off you papist cunt


Sure I'm an Ulster Orangeman, from Erin's isle I came,
To see my British brethren all of honour and of fame,
And to tell them of my forefathers who fought in days of yore,
That I might have the right to wear, the sash my father wore!

(Chorus) It is old but it is beautiful, and its colours they are fine,
It was worn at Derry, Aughrim, Enniskillen and the Boyne,
My father wore it as a youth in bygone days of yore,
And it's on the Twelfth I love to wear the sash my father wore


For those brave men who crossed the Boyne have not fought or died in vain,
Our Unity, Religion, Laws, and Freedom to maintain,
If the call should come we'll follow the drum, and cross that river once more,
That tomorrow's Ulsterman may wear the sash my father wore!


And when some day, across the sea to Antrim's shore you come,
We'll welcome you in royal style, to the sound of flute and drum,
And Ulster's hills shall echo still, from Rathlin to Dromore,
As we sing again the loyal strain of the sash my father wore!

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

john knox - Ah, the language of Shakespeare and Milton, you just can't beat it can you ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

kay stopworth -
1/ I would always bow to the SSP when it comes to lies but, you will have to give me details.

2/ No I'm not a bigot, you're a bigot.

3/ No I'm not.

5/ Where is 4? - nearly all wrong, one item is correct..

6/ No I'n not, you're a bully and a moron.

7/ I pity you for descending to this level.

8/ Good, I would rather quit politics than ask for a vote from someone like you.

9/ Ferguslie is improving, if you had a shred of decency you would'nt be writing this muck.

10/ A) I oppose racism, homophobia, sexism and war from within the Labour Party where it counts. B) I'm not a liar and a phony socialist, you are and, I'm also kind to animals and old people.

I explained about two lost comments and offered to reprint them, I think that makes you untrustworthy, does it not ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

S-E - On the contrary it was one of your more intelligent contributions.

Kay Stopforth said...

1. I have supplied a link highlighting you being exposed as a liar. If are prepared to lie about something so easy to disprove why should we believe anything else you say?

2. You are a political bigot. Totally incapable of engaging in debate without hurling abuse at your opponents. You are blatantly anti-Semitic, anti-American, a religious bigot. You have on your own blog used homophobic and xenophobic language. Again I have supplied a link as evidence. Would you care to reciprocate with evidence of my bigotry?

3. Can you explain, using facts why the report discovering contamination at the Seedhill playing fields is wrong? Can you also advise what possible motive the locals would have for lying. If the council are offering them a better deal why would they be against it?

4. Yes I missed four. Big deal.

5. You do own shares and you have profited from Thatcher's council house sell off. Or are you trying to tell us that you openly supported this policy when it was introduced. You also own share in a privatised utility. Did you also openly support this privatisation when it was introduced. This makes you a hypocrite and you know it, hence why you keep evading the question?

6. Have you actually read your own blog?

7. Sorry catty couldn't help it. Still it hasn't held her back. Incidentally Terry I was looking over Rayleen's expenses recently. She's certainly good to herself. Frankly it's a miracle we're only being subjected to a 1.9% council tax increase.

8. Someone like me? What do you know about me Terry? Care to elaborate. As far as I am aware we have only very briefly been introduced a few years back. You were perfectly polite, if dismissive of my point of view. If I'm such a bad person why didn't you say so to my face? Are you a coward?

9. Ferguslie Park has improved despite having you as a councillor. People like Margaret Canning have more to do with that than you. No wonder you didn't want to write about her achievements. She's worth ten of you.

10. So can you tell us all what you have done within the Labour Party to oppose homophobic legislation supported by your party? Can you tell us exactly what you have done to oppose homophobic bullying at Renfrewshire Council? We both know what I'm referring to but out of respect for the victim, please answer without bringing their name into it.

Racism
John Reid was on the news only this week making blatantly xenophobic statements about foreign workers and illegal immigrants. You have not uttered one word in condemnation. Your silence makes you complicit.

Sexism
Hounding single mothers off benefits. Only one fifth of welfare recipients. Or do Labour not acknowledge motherhood as a valuable contribution to society.

It's very easy to say you're against sexism etc. What counts is actions so let's hear what you've done other than talk.

Anonymous said...

Are you one of the Renfrewshire councillors being investigated for financial naughtiness? Yes or no?

Frank said...

Terry, It's wonderful to see a politician so committed to Gay and Lesbian issues. I never thought I would see my viewpoint represented in local politics. I'm quite frankly thrilled by it all.

Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

'I think that makes you untrustworthy, does it not?'

Do your lies about the SSP ans Iain Hogg not make you untrustworthy?

K.S

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Kay Stopworth -
1/ Just say what you are getting at and I'll reply.
2/ Describing someone as a political bigot is highly subjective, I simply returned the insult. Describing me as anti semitic, anti American and a religious bigot does not make it so, it's your opinion that's all. I've simply replied in kind, I had hoped that you would realise the stupidity of this kind of exchange, obviously not.
3/ I've never said the report was wrong - Seedhill Fields are being used as a political football and the residents are being used as well, the same as asylum seekers, nursery nurses, Peace protests, Firefighters and Gordon Gentle's family etc.
5/ There is one point in this drivel which is true but you don't understand that properly either. Go and do some work and get proof of what you say, otherwise it's just name calling.
6/ Yes, and I've read your comments with incredulity.
7/ That sounds like a question from a Sun reader, if you want to know about how to make money out of the system, go and ask the SSP.
8/ I know nothing about you other than what I've read, as I said before I'm answering you in kind, if you want me to be more polite then you have the solution, perhaps you could start by telling me about when we met.
9/ For the past 8 yrs. I've been working with Margaret and others to do the best we can for the area, I don't think it's fair for you to use her like this.
10/ Labour has nothing to be ashamed of on this and neither do I. I'm not aware of homophic bullying in Renfrewshire Council and I don't know what 'victim' you refer to, give me details or I will consider you to be lying, use e-mail for discretion.
11/ Racism, Sexism ? This is new to me I've never been accused of things like this in 45 yrs. involvement in the Labour movement, I must plead not guilty. John Reid & me ? whit ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Cllr Terry Kelly said...
anon - Get off your bum and do some work, I've already explained that I've stolen so much over the years in politics that I don't need any more. How many yachts and holiday homes does one man need ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Frank - Thank you.

RightForScotland said...

"I'm not aware of homophic bullying"

Apart from when the National party ripped you lot apart in the wake of the Gordon McMaster suicide?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

anon K.S. - You will have to tell me what you are referring to with the SSP. As for Hogg, his name is synonymous with treachery, his reputation is ruined and will never recover.

Take my advice, if you have anything to do with him, don't turn your back on him.

red mist said...

You say you have been working for Ferguslie for 8 years but it still has not 1, but 2 areas in the bottom 5 of Scotland's areas of multiple deprivation.
Under pressure you say that this is because the data is two years old.
It would seem then that you have been largely as ineffective in helping working people as the rest of the Labour party's snake oil salesmen and that being the leading trumpet in the Alexanders' rag time band hasn't exactly given you much influence.

Kay Stopforth said...

This e-mail was sent to the Terrywatch website and suggests you maybe a bit economical with the truth re Iain Hogg. For the record I've never met the man, nor do I have any intention of voting for the SSP. I just find your lies irritating.


"Hope you don't mind me emailing. I don't post on blogs normally, but I sometimes to check out what they are saying to catch up on the Renfrewshire political gossip.

Terry Kelly seems to be a friend of yours :) He keeps repeating the myth about Iain Hogg buying two council houses.

If you are interested, the truth is that Iain Hogg has never bought a council house. Iain has bought a former council house, and then moved to another former council house (ie the tenant who rented each of the houses, before Iain moved in, bought their houses).

This is yet another deliberate attempt by Terry to smear Iain. Terry and his party don't need to agree with our politics, but they should at least strive to tell the truth. I would be happy for the truth to be told wherever on the internet this pernicious lie appears.

All the best

Gerry McCartney
Renfrewshire SSP branch secretary"

Surreptitious Evil said...

Terry,

For the benefit of those of us who are not quite as mired in the slime of Renfrewshire politics as you, would you please let your readers know what Iain Hogg has done to deserve this level of virulence from you?

Ta, S-E

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Your arrogance betrays you again. Just make it up as you go along, no one in this Labour group has a clue what you are on about, apart from predictable muck raking, most people wouldn't stoop to this, but, you well------

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Red mist - Anyone who actually knows the area knows that there has been tremendous improvement over recent years, and that is continuing. It's not an easy situation to sort but we will carry on the fight. The real political snake oil salesmen are the ones who refuse to tell the truth about the difficulties. Just get rid of Labour and it will be fine come the revolution is their mantra, toy town revolutionaries, remind you of anyone ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

S-E - Go and ask him - explain to him first who you and your cronies are and what you are about.

Show him examples of what you all write and the views you hold, I don't think even Hogg would go near you.

RightForScotland said...

Um, Hi!

I have not taken part in this thread but if you are going to take my name in vane!!!

My arrogance? I reproduced an email I received complete with named source

I struggle to understand how someone could buy a council house, sell it, get back on the housing list and then buy that one again so I tend to side with the SSP secretary on this one.

I take it you have a different view? Care to share it?

red mist said...

Sorry Terry, but you're just not getting it.

you have been fighting for the people of Ferguslie for 8 years

the figures on the multiple deprivation report are two years old

so it took 6 years for you to get Ferguslie into the bottom five most deprived areas in Scotland (twice)

I'm forced to ask how bad your cronies had let it become before you rode to the rescue, and even if the figures were 2 years old, it's a league table and every other area's figures were just as old. Like was being compared with like, and only if Ferguslie has improved much faster over the last 2 years than the areas round about it in the league table would the relative positions change. I see little evidence of that.
I am also told that one of your boasts in the local paper is about how many houses you as a council have knocked down..that is doubly sad, because you as a council have built none for years and have tried to privatise those you have

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

red mist - After all the problems visited on areas like Ferguslie, after hundreds of years of capitalist exploitation, wars, floods and famine, we discover that it's my fault, brilliant analysis, you're clearly a heavyweight thinker.

I think I've got you, you're that geezer off the tele. Wolfie Smith right ? Freedom for tooting right ?

What I said was " there is a word for removing unwanted crumbling tenements and replacing them with new houses with back and front doors and gardens, that word is progress "

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - You really are tiresome, I'll assume you are as thick as you seem to appear.

Anyone who portrays themselves as the man with socialist answers to housing problems should at the very least tell people that he is involved in profiting from Thatcher's 'right to buy ' policy. For your information this guy campaigned against transfering houses to a housing association while remaining a member of Williamsburg Housing Association.

I'm therefore not surprised he has your support. Would you like to name your email source or is that a secret too ?

red mist said...

I don't think your strategy is fooling anybody any more.

First, you have personalised the argument, but let's be clear. I don't hold you responsible for any flood, famine, or war. As to capitalist exploitation, it would be nice if you could induce a job creator to set up in Ferguslie and provide some work,then we might just have a capitalist to talk about. I do hold you, collectively, as the party of Government, responsible for deprivation, because if you aren't responsible for alleviating this sort of problem why are you taking the money? Ferguslie has been deprived of facilities and opportunities which have been granted to others. that's how you become bottom of a league of deprivation, and you, collectively, have been the party responsible for that granting or denial of the seeds of prosperity.

Second, your fixation with who your correspondents are is only so that you can offer personal abuse in place of reasoned argument. Start to address the issues. You are a member of the Labour party but you don't support their defence policy, their foreign policy, their housing policy, their taxation policy or by implication their leader. Do you just pay the subs. and not think what you are supporting, or are you just supporting the Kellys.

Finally, removing unwanted housing and replacing it with better is a fine and noble thing, but you (collectively,)replaced it with nothing. You shirked your responsibilities and let a Housing Assocn. pick up on the problem. As you survey your empire you will see that where houses (crumbling or otherwise)have been knocked down, and the housing assocn. have not built, the land lies derelict. The Labour council have done nothing with it except to delay and defer the planning of a football stadium for the local team to the point where no-one knows what is happening. You (collectively) removed old crumbling tenements and replaced them with nothing. That is called rubble, not progress.
It is little wonder that the Scottish Executive are offering large sums of money to you and your cronies from both sides of the Council chamber provided you go away and don't come back.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Red mist - "Personalised the argument" that was me trying to illustrate how simplistic and puerile your argument is, I'll not try humour again. Maybe I could personalise the argument if you could find the courage to identify yourself, go on you'll feel braver and better.

"Ferguslie has been deprived of facilities and opportunities " That's a real howler, you clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about. Try asking the 'others' and they will tell you - altogether now, FERGUSLIE GETS EVERYTHING - go and try it and stop talking rubbish.

" I'm not responsible for deprivation " where did I say that ? Society throughout history is responsible except for you of course.
Yes I would like to know who is writing to me, maybe it's because I've never made an anonymous comment in my life and I can't imagine doing so, particularly if it's a hostile comment, that's just cowardice and you're guilty Wolfie.
"You are a member of the Labour Party" yes, and I agree and disagree with many issues, perhaps in your kind of politics everyone agrees but that's just another form of cowardice. I might find a party with no dissent but it would then have to be mine with no other members wouldn't

"Am I just supporting the Kelly's" As I said you're an "anonymous coward "
"Housing not being replaced in Ferguslie" for any of this particular twaddle to have any substance we would need lots of homeless and we haven't got them, how do you explain that Wolfie ?

"Large sums of money to go away " do you read the sun Wolfie ?

RightForScotland said...

Terry,

You are very lazy mate.

If you had actually read what was being posted on our fantastic TerryWatch site you would have seen that I reproduced the email in full, including the name and position of the person giving me the information.

I don't see why I should "do your work for you" but I will link to the original article with the full reproduction of the email.

http://terrywatch.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-council-house-lies-from-terry.html

PS: I am not "siding" with him I am simply stating that knowing your story and his it would seem easier the way the SSP guy suggested.

RightForScotland said...

Ferguslie gets everything? Yup I would agree with that.

Problem is that there is a persistent element that causes Feegie to get it all.

When they started building those new homes can you remember what happened? They got torched.

Brand new homes were set on fire within a couple of months. Plant being used to construct those same houses were being vandalised. This is not the work of people abused by capitalism.

This is the work of a minority of welfare victims who have no sense of moral responsibility to society. They victimise their own neighbourhoods and destroy their own environment because their sense of entitlement tells them that the Powers that be will replace and repair. And that repair effort is paid for through public funds and rent. It is a finite resource so when it is being spent on repairing the willful damage done there it is not being spent on other people.

In this perverse world the OAP does not get a new kitchen because the cretin has deliberately made themselves homeless.

Within a couple of months the new houses were being abused. I live on a private estate, care to guess at how many times a home owner in my estate has deliberately torched their own property? In the 28 years I have lived there? I will give you a clue, it is less than 1.

red mist said...

Terry- I am disappointed. You said you weren't going to try humour again, but then you said that Ferguslie gets everything. Now even I recognise that as a joke. Where are the jobs, where are the buses, why is there such a high proportion of the children entitled to free school meals even under Happy Jack's restricted entitlement criteria. (I'll have to stop calling the first minister that in case others of 'my generation' confuse him with the Happy Jack of The Who song. One of them was a donkey and it's an easy mistake to make. I think I'm really getting the hang of this humour/personal abuse business.)

It is precisely the fact that you don't know who you are addressing that makes it so easy for you to abuse me and ignore the issues, but responsible politicians should not be encouraging people to give out personal details on the internet and I'll not be publishing mine simply to conform to your idea of how we should debate. I have no way of knowing that you are who you say you are either except for the fact that your views make it seem likely. My views are, it seems further to the left than yours, but petty schoolboy name-calling adds little to the debate.
You write off your disagreements with the Labour party as 'issues' but these things are fundamental to the Labour party in Government. You can't give them your money and your support and your vote, and then when the bodies of the poor souls in the forces start coming back excuse yourself from the foreign and defence policies of the party you supported. This war is a disgrace. Trident is a disgrace. If you agree come out and say so clearly and take the honourable course of action that accompanies those beliefs. Press every button you know to bring our troops home. They don't deserve the shabby way this Government has treated them.

As to the problems of housing, I'll do my own research and shortly I'll let you know the extent of the Council's waiting lists for council houses, but I suspect you already have such figures and know that it runs into at least hundreds. If homelessness is not a problem can you perhaps explain who the people are who use the Rough Sleepers Initiative in George St. Paisley which is financed in large part by the Council you represent. Are you wasting the taxpayers' money or are there substantial numbers of homeless souls using that facility every day. Go down any morning and have a look. Since you ask,that's how I explain it.

No doubt however, this will touch a nerve like my last post, and you will edit this one as well.

I try to read as many of the papers as possible, and they all agree as to the extent of the pay-offs to councillors who are past their sell by date. (that wasn't a reference to cash for honours, it just came out that way -- this humour/personal abuse thing is hard to turn off)

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - I was referring to your squalid remarks about the late Gordon McMaster.

I'm not worried about Gerry McCartney's email, I doubt if you'll hear from him again. He'll probably realise what he stepped on and stay away.

RightForScotland said...

Terry, you really are getting easier to hit.

Your post requesting the name of my email source came in the context of rebutting the SSP thing. Plus I think you will find my McMasters comment is not even on this thread!!!

FYI the McMasters thing is public domain but if a source would make you feel better:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/politics/13267.stm

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - McMaster ? conjecture presented as fact and you call me a liar.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Ferguslie, you missed the point entirely.

Please keep this stuff coming I'm delighted to print it, some people still think I've invented you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Red Mist - I stopped reading where you accused me of editing your comments, this a lie.

In the past 4 yrs I have refused to print some posts because of their language and I've edited none.

If you write back without a retraction you will not be published.

RightForScotland said...

"conjecture presented as fact"

Can we have the suicide note published then to clear all this up?

red mist said...

Terry--I am not the kind of person who refuses to admit to an error, so if part of my comments got lost on the internet I will apologise profusely. But will you confirm that there was no reference to fighting for change from within Labour as being akin to joining the Ku Klux Klan to fight racism. It doesn't appear in your moderated version and it was certainly in mine (part of this new humour thing I'm learning to do).

RightForScotland said...

"RFS - Ferguslie, you missed the point entirely."

What is the point then? I was agreeing with you that people think that Feegie gets everything.

Shotgun said...

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Ferguslie, you missed the point entirely.

Please keep this stuff coming I'm delighted to print it, some people still think I've invented you.


So where are they? They must have access to the net, so why are they not here fighting your corner?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Shotgun - They don't agree with my writing back they reckon that I should not encourage you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Ferguslie ? you liar - covering up your blunder.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

red mist - what follows your apology is gibberish, try rewriting it, without trying to be too clever, you're beginning to remind me of someone.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - You linked him to homophobic bullying without proof, isn't that lying ? you are beneath contempt.

red mist said...

Terry- I think you understood perfectly well what I said in my last post, but just to spell it out in easy words:- I included in an earlier post a comment to the effect that fighting to change the Labour party from within was like joining the Ku Klux Klan to fight racism. It can't be done.

That comment does not appear in the version of my post which you published, therefore, since you say that you don't edit posts, that comment must have got lost in cyberspace? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and simply asking you to confirm that the view I expressed was not in my earlier post as you received it. It was certainly in the post I sent. I'm sorry if you misunderstood.
As to who I remind you of, I can't think who that might be.

RightForScotland said...

Your own party briefed against your association during the suicide fallout. I think that this speaks volumes. I do not accept the charge of liar. I would prefer the charge of "fishing". If your party were to released the note then this would all be cleared up. But then again that may make things worse.

"RFS - Ferguslie ? you liar - covering up your blunder."

My oh my we have had our cage rattled. In what way have I lied about this? I presented the reasons why a Renfrewshire resident would think this way and the best you can come up with in defence is to resort to name calling? At least when I called you on your lies I backed this up with a different narrative.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

red mist - I didn't understand what you said, I've never seen that comment and I've never edited anything.

As to the comment, now I understand it. Some people don't have the stomach for the fight and they quit while others make a decision to stand and fight. I consider myself to be in the latter category.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Your previous comments about Ferguslie tells us all we need to know about your attitude.

Had I never started this blog site I would never have believed that you and your kind were still around.

Jackart said...

If there's anything more fun than watching a socialist being torn to bits by right-wing attack-dogs, its watching a socailist being torn to bits by his own filthy kind.

RightForScotland said...

So you are not going to attempt to defend your ward then?

Shotgun said...

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Shotgun - They don't agree with my writing back they reckon that I should not encourage you.


ROFLMFAO!!!

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

jackart - this socialist hasn't a bite mark on him. And anyway you're more like a lap dog than an attack dog - would a real fighting dog be afraid to tell us it's name ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - You either haven't been paying attention or, what's more likely, you're lazy.

RightForScotland said...

"RFS - Your previous comments about Ferguslie tells us all we need to know about your attitude.

Had I never started this blog site I would never have believed that you and your kind were still around. "

No defense of your ward here mate. Care to point out where your counterpoint to my story was?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Must you keep calling me mate ?

I've defended my ward many times.

Re-read your bigoted post on Ferguslie and see if you can spot anything.

I count that as 4 posts in ten minutes, has something rattled you'r cage ?

RightForScotland said...

"I've defended my ward many times"

On this post?

And it does not matter how many times I post to your site regardless of how hard you wish it did. I was on my lunch.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - can you re write this ? so I can understand it ?

RightForScotland said...

Hands up who didn't understand my last post?

Just you then Terry?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - "hands up" Rhetorical ?

RightForScotland said...

Jovial

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - " Jovial " are you trying to be more obscure to regain lost ground ?

RightForScotland said...

I have no lost ground to make up. I answered a single word question with a single word answer.