Monday, March 19, 2007
SOUTER & THE SNP - GAY OUTRAGE !
I intend to come back to this, meantime I just want to say ( WHERE ARE YOU WILL ? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WRIGGLE OUT OF THIS ? CAN I COMMENT ON THIS WITHOUT YOU CALLING IT A FALSE ACCUSATION AGAINST THE HOMOPHOBIC SNP ? ) Where are you Will, braveheart Will ? we can't hear you.
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39 comments:
Thanks for asking for my opinion, Terry, I'm truly flattered!
I shall point out that Souter - and, no, I'm not his biggest fan - gave the SNP the money to campaign for the policies we already have (esp. independence, which he supports), not to change them. It is Conference that sets SNP policy, not our financial backers.
We know that Bernie Ecclestone almost got away with buying the Labour Party's anti-tobacco legislation for a million, but SNP Conference delegates are most certainly not for sale at any price. So let me re-assure you and anyone who's reading this. We have supported, we still support and we will carry on supporting pro-equality legislation.
As for whether or not you've made a false accusation, I reckon you've just put 2 and 2 together and got 3,690,804.6463241.
Just out of curiosity (and it would be nice if you answered this but my expectations are low), do you think Labour should de-select Dennis Goldie for his views on homosexuality?
Out of further curiosity, have I got to you so much on this that you ask for me by name now?
Is it worth pointing out that Souter is also a man who has made millions out of running Stagecoach? And that the break up of the UK would put him out of pocket?
Surely this is a much more interesting question but Terry chooses to fixate on the "homosexual" in Will's description as a "homosexual nationalist" rather than "nationalist".
And I think that says something.
will - Ecclestone is a pathetic diversion - is it right to use WE when so many nationalists are not with you.
Goldie - If what is said about him in the press is true then YES.
How about you ? what about Cunningham, Ewing, Adam, Salmond, Sturgeon, Souter.
As far as your name is concerned I couldn't resist rubbing salt in this open wound because I knew you would bottle it again.
RFS - In bed with Souter, what next ? can you possibly get any lower ?
I'm not clear about what you're getting at with Will but maybe he'll comment on why you have said this.
"RFS - In bed with Souter, what next ? can you possibly get any lower ?"
I have no opinions for or against him. What is interesting is that as soon as someone raises a question about YOUR position you assume that we must be for the other position. I just pointed out that you fixated on the gay question when there is more politics to be made out of the Stagecoach question.
And I thought that I read somewhere that Will was gay. If I just made that up then I shall grovel to him on the email later.
RFS - It's unusual to find someone who doesn't have an opinion on Souter, I don't believe you, I think he's your man, anti gay and a ruthless right wing union buster as well.
My argument with Will is nothing to do with who is or isn't gay it's to do with his party's janus face on the issue. Perhaps when you grovel to him you can explain why you think it necessary to apologise for assuming that he was gay.
You don't need to worry too much though, he hates me enough to let you off with that.
"It's unusual to find someone who doesn't have an opinion on Souter"
I don't work for him or with him and I don't use his services therefore he is not even on my radar. I am aware of who he is and what he does but I have no strong opinions about him.
You clearly do. What were his union busting activities that you so hate?
Terry - Ecclestone is a valid comparison: it's an interesting co-incidence that a Labour government would exempt F1, a sport that makes a great deal of money from tobacco sponsorship, from a ban on tobacco advertising when the guy running the sport gives Labour £1,000,000. Souter's £500,000 will not, I repeat, will not lead to a change in policy.
I will continue to use 'we' and I detected no signs at Conference that I was not welcome for any reason, least of all my orientation, so once again, Terry, you're talking rubbish.
Roseanna Cunningham's intervention was an embarrassment but she was voted down: most of our MSPs voted against her. Ewing has largely sunk without trace, there's no point going over Adam again as you refuse to report the actual facts on that situation, neither Alex Salmond nor Nicola Sturgeon have uttered anything questionable on gay rights and Souter lost the gay rights argument some time ago - SNP MSPs helped to make that happen.
You are starting to get obsessed with me, Terry - perhaps because my actual existence blows one of your favourite rants out of the water. That there are any openly gay members of the SNP (and I am by no means the only one) lays to waste this ridiculous idea of yours that the SNP is a giant homophobic conspiracy, probably run by 12-foot lizard people. Of course, the sensible thing to do would be to realise that the rant was no longer valid and move on. The stupid thing to do is whinge that I'm here and vocal. It doesn't surprise me that you've plumped for Option B.
And I will take no lectures on janus-facedness on this issue from a member of a Party which contains Ruth Kelly and Dennis Goldie on one hand, and Peter Mandelson and Ben Bradshaw on the other.
His partys Janus face?
Maybe he is in the party to effect change from within just like you? Maybe they are all in it to effect change from within eh?
If you're going to talk rubbish, at least make it consistent rubbish.
Shotgun - Most of us are in it for the right reasons and I believe Will is too, but you are missing the point, he's running away from this single issue.
Will - Nothing new here, the only thing that's changed since we last done this is Souter and Salmond have cut your ground from under you, but your still running away.
What am I to make of RFS saying he would apologise to you for assuming you were gay and you not commenting ?
Are you really that craven ?
RFS - Souter, I don't believe you about him, I think you might have a picture of him next to your bed.
Check his record on take overs etc sackings etc and why the unions hate him.
" Souter, I don't believe you about him, "
Then that would make you wrong.
RFS - " Souter " - Oh no it wouldn't
Cllr Terry Kelly said...
Shotgun - Most of us are in it for the right reasons and I believe Will is too, but you are missing the point, he's running away from this single issue.
You run from every issue.
Check his record on take overs etc sackings etc and why the unions hate him.
You mean like the many freinds of Labour now?
Why be selective?
"...the only thing that's changed since we last done [sic] this is Souter and Salmond have cut your ground from under you, but your [sic] still running away."
There is nothing to run away from: if I thought for one moment that the SNP wasn't going to welcome my membership on any grounds I would obviously have to end it. As it stands, I am comfortable with my choice of political party. The fact that I am not alone in being both gay and a member of SNP shows that I am quite right to be.
"What am I to make of RFS saying he would apologise to you for assuming you were gay and you not commenting?"
For people other than you, Terry, it is quite normal to apologise for mis-reporting something. It's called taking responsibility for your errors. Now, RFS made no error, so no apology is necessary. When you mis-represent a situation (or a person), and get pulled up about it, you accuse the person confronting you of being part of a vast reactionary conspiracy.
I disagree with RFS's politics - he'd probably be horrified if he saw my political compass results - but I respect him for wanting to get his facts right and offering to put out a 'mea culpa' if he hasn't done. I'm probably closer to your politics on a number of issues, but you simply ignore facts that you don't like, choosing to attack personally those people who dare to correct you.
You run away from facts and arguments all the time, then accuse me of running away from an issue that 1) I addressed in my first reply and 2) is basically a storm in a teacup for the reasons I outlined in that reply. That makes you a coward for running away from the facts, a liar for falsely accusing me of doing so, and a hypocrite for criticising me on those grounds.
You know me that well do you? Or are you just working from prejudice?
Hi Terry....
'What am I to make of RFS saying he would apologise to you for assuming you were gay and you not commenting ?
Are you really that craven ?'
I am at a loss as to what you are really saying on this subject.
RFS actually said he would apologise to Will if, having said he thought Will was gay, he had got his facts wrong and this was something he had made up. I saw that as merely being good manners, in offering to apologise for being incorrect, but not for the making any explicit, or indeed inferred, stigmatisation that was never there
Will then said 'That there are any openly gay members of the SNP (and I am by no means the only one)...'. I would take that to mean he is saying that he is gay
So what is Will to take umbrage about and what might he be running away from?
It sounds a bit like someone saying that they would apologise for suggesting you were a clot if you were not, and your then saying that you were as thick as two short planks.
Are you suggesting that your next appropriate course of action would be to immediately launch a counter-attack to defend your position, merely to prove that you really are?
Please elaborate....
Will - Again, nothing new here except your respect for RHS and it's way, way too long !
RFS - I've formed an opinion about you, does that surprise you ? have you formed an opinion of me ?
Scunnered - A masterpiece of the dissemblers art, convoluted and mendacious - the exact same as Will, you've just got to be a gnat.
"Again, nothing new here except your respect for RHS and it's way, way too long ! "
Will respects the Royal Highland Show? Good for him.
Well, Terry, given your penchant for repeating lies over and over again, then completely ignoring the truth when it's stuck in front of your nose, I bow to your expertise on mendacity.
You're still a coward for hiding from my responses, you're still a liar for accusing me of running away from - well, anything - and you're still a hypocrite for doing both of those at the same time.
RFS - RHS ? You've found your level, do you know what you look like when you do this ?
Will - Have some courage, it's not too late. Anyway, repetitive and still too long.
Someone who does not let rage so blind them that I forget the names of those who oppose me?
Someone who does not take you too seriously when he can help it?
RFS - " Blind rage " there must be an awful lot of times when you can't help it.
What is your record is 7 or 8 or more posts to me in one day ?
"What is your record is 7 or 8 or more posts to me in one day ?"
Why does this matter to you so much?
Terry, of all the people to talk about courage, you take the cake, really. Never have I encountered a more spineless character. 'Courage' is just another word to you, you heard someone else talking about it and repeated it, parrot-like.
Re the Royal Highland Show. I had a casual job in the catering for it when I was at Uni... it wasn't great but it paid the bills and I had a good time, unlike my flatmate who managed to burn his forehead on the tea urn. Oh, and there was the rumour about the drunken guy who lost his arm playing the fool in a tractor, but that might have been a myth.
RFS - 'Your record' didn't you describe yourself as someone who doesn't take me all that seriously ?
Will - 1 st. para. same stuff.
2nd. Para. is this code for something ?
" 'Your record' didn't you describe yourself as someone who doesn't take me all that seriously ? "
Yup, and your fixation on my post count is one of the reasons for that.
"is this code for something ?"
Who knows? My post has probably triggered a coup d'état in at least one Latin American country. But I intended it to be:
1. The truth about my opinion on the RHS, which has now come under scrutiny;
2. A warning never to get drunk around tractors;
3. A warning never to nut a tea urn, which is what my ex-flatmate would have to have done in order to burn his forehead on one.
RFS - " Yup " This has a hollow ring to it.
Will - You really have lost me.
Bad Terry, go on boy sit.
Bark at the nasty zionist.
fido - your bark is clearly worse than your bite.
Do you not worry that people who might read this will conclude that anyone as angry and confrontational as you should not be hiding.
Perhaps the SNP will realise at some point that they cant be "All things to all people" forever.
They cannot hope to serve the aims of a bigoted paymaster like Souter and at the same time claim to be a radical progressive party fit to govern Scotland.
What's the pay-off - turning back the clock on gay rights in an independent Scotland
Any gay man, woman or bisexual or indeed anyone of a liberal viewpoint should search their minds as well as their hearts before putting a cross next to the SNP
Talk about selling your soul to the devil.
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