I can’t resist an update on my impersonator; he /she has now provided me with approx. 300 hits a day I’m famous; even if they are coming from people who are trying to damage me and don’t have the bottle to come out in the open. I must be fearsome; I’m beginning to scare myself; here are all these tough guy Zionists breathing fire all over the place; Google ( Harry’s Place ) and see. What would these cowards have been like in the Warsaw Ghetto if they can’t face me? Not only are they quivering behind anonymity; some of them are still clinging to the obvious fiction that it was me who wrote these comments; desperate stuff, go read their trembling attempts to hide the fact that they were made fools of. Such is their pathological bigotry that they were ready to jump on to this c**p and wrap themselves in it no matter how dim-witted it was; defenders of Israel how are ye!
Let’s try to shine a light on these liars and cowards; Zionism is an evil creed it justifies any crime in the name of Israel; Gaza being the most obvious example. The followers can do anything they like to the Palestinians because God told them 2000 years ago that it was their promised land; if only he had stuck to turning water into wine the place would have been a whole lot happier especially if he had passed on the trick to other generations eh?
There are millions of people like me of all religions and none; including Jews; who are horrified by Israel’s behaviour all over the world. I have learned over the last few days that to write anything critical of Israel I have to weigh every word; check every point made because rather than take part in a debate these liars will hide behind every trick in the book to avoid a proper debate; they will obfuscate and dive ever deeper into semantics and split hairs to avoid reasoned disagreement and it leads to web sites like Harry’s Place where nothing is as it seems; where argument is engulfed in ever decreasing circles by these Zionists bullies who will do anything to defend the indefensible.
I am now the target of a dishonest campaign by Zionists with help no doubt from the crazy cybernats to try to intimidate me and shut me up but; I have a question for them. How do you intend to intimidate someone without facing them? How do you scare someone when you refuse to come out of hiding? I reckon that had the present crop of gutless Zionists responsible for this garbage been around instead of their ancestors in 19 48 there would have been no Israel. I hope this runs and runs I can do some damage to the bad guys with this.
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Cllr Kelly,
Did you actually write this, or is this also someone acting maliciously?
"I believe that Zionism is not Judaism; the Zionists treatment of the Palestinians is a blot on Jews everywhere; I will continue to oppose Israel I can do no other and I have never written comments to any web site; never;"
(MacKenzie) 19:24
Guilty as charged M’Lud and proud of it; it’s pretty good eh?
Excuse me councillor, it was you who wrote of the Israelis, on your own site, "Force them to act as they once did; when their treatment under the Nazis won them the respect and affection of most of the world"
You do have a problem, and it's not impersonators!
Vey ist mir!
Guilty as charged M’Lud and proud of it; it’s pretty good eh?
It is something I would have been a bit more careful about. To me, it was a bit like saying "priests interfering with wee boys is a blot on all catholics" or ""the murder of commuters in London is a stain on Muslims everywhere."
I would not say either. But as you say, you are ".. proud of it."
No it isn't of course. Almost every commenter on HP pointed out that it was mutually contradictory, and that the latter part that all Jews are responsible for the actions of the Israeli government was revolting and anti-semitic - which of the halves do you stick by?
You also decided not to address the fact that Palestine has a terrorist government that rains shells on innocent Israelis daily, and that this might not make it the black and white Hamas-good/Israel-bad situation you thought.
I guess you thought you'd got round it with that pompous "I've tried to reason with you awful Zionists and now I'm even more up for viva Palestina" playground argument.
God help us. With people like you in the Labour party no wonder it's up for a kicking this year.
So you don't see the blazing logical contradiction that runs straight down its middle as wide as an airport runway, Councillor?
Dear Mr Kelly
I admit, I had never heard you until I visited Harrys Place.
I posted a comment in your support. However, totally in contradiction of the quote from Orwell at the top of their page, they don't allow people to say things they don't want to hear.
The people who write for and regularly comment there are all liars, hypocrites and slimeballs, without exception.
Congratulations on finding this out for yourself and if it has reinforced your determination to work to end Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, all well and good.
But please, do not waste politeness on them. It will not be reciprocated. On the contrary, they will exploit politeness - or any other sign of decency - as a weakness to be exploited.
Note that while HP claims that everyone who criticizes Israel is an antisemite, their worst bile is reserved for Jews who speak up for the Palestinians.
In other words, Harrys Place insists that Jews MUST take a tribalist position at all times.
This is akin to the Nazis calling Germans who took a stand against Hitler "anti-German" and "traitors".
Cllr,
Are you by any chance familiar with one Count Arthur Strong?
Dear oh dear.
Mr. Kelly,
I'm a Zionist and a Jew and I'm not here because of what your "impersonator" wrote, but what you yourself did. Lets confine ourselves to just what's in this one post of yours. You've said more elsewhere in the same vein, but the pickings are rich enough right here — rich enough that you’ll get my comments in two parts.
It's apparently very important to you that we "come out in the open" to face you. Very well: I'm Jonathan Romer. Does that make me less anonymous to you now than I was before you knew my name? Does it put my comments in a different light? No, it doesn't, so why the fixation on names? Are you under the impression that the fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto wore name tags: "Hello, my name is Mordechai Anielewicz". If I assure you that they didn't, will you think them cowards too?
What does "tough guy Zionists breathing fire" mean? Does it mean anything at all, beyond that people have disagreed with your opinions?
"Zionism is an evil creed it justifies any crime in the name of Israel" No, Zionism is Jewish nationalism. It has the same virtues and flaws as any other nationalism. It is similar to the Palestinian nationalism which you support, for example, though much older. It also comes in many flavours. For some Zionists the nationalism is indeed partnered with anti-Arab racism; for others it's expressed as an unworldly, never-hurt-a-fly, turn-the-other-cheek pacifism which you would like if you'd only give it a try, because it tends to put all blame and all responsibility for progress on Israel. Most Zionists are in the middle ground, like most people on most subjects. You'd be unaware of that because for you Zionism is lumped under "evil creed". You're not a middle-ground kind of guy.
"The followers can do anything they like to the Palestinians because God told them 2000 years ago that it was their promised land". If you'd payed any attention at all to what Zionists have actually said and done, rather than to the bogeyman you've created for your own use, you would know that Israel was founded by secular men and women with little use for religion and its claims. Their claim to the land was not that God gave it to them, but that it was the place where Jews became a nation, the place where they could assert a right to nationhood again, and the place where they could build a functioning society. You may disagree with them, but if you consider yourself an honest man disagree honestly, without substituting God for the historical and political arguments that they made. As for "doing anything they like to the Palestinians", you must have a very limited imagination if you think that what Israel has done to the Palestinians matches what would be expected of a racist, evil and completely uninhibited enemy. In Lebanon, Palestinians are trapped in camps more squalid than anything the West Bank and Gaza have to offer by the Lebanese. They are legally prohibited from entry into over 70 professions. Not so in Israel. Both Syria and Egypt have used poison gas against their enemies; Syria destroyed an entire town with its inhabitants in it, and ploughed it into the desert, to punish the town's dissidents. Israel has not. Jordan, the only country in the Middle East apart from Israel to grant citizenship to Palestinians, has recently started revoking some of those citizenships. The same Jordan killed more Palestinians in one month — September 1970 — than Israel has killed in all its wars with them. Where are your blog posts advocating boycotts of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan, and condemning them as "evil, racist" regimes?
"I have learned over the last few days that to write anything critical of Israel I have to weigh every word; check every point made" Good. I hope you have learned precisely that. Why would you have ever thought that it was OK to post without thinking about what you were saying? Does it not matter to you that when you say false things about Israel, Israelis, Zionists or Jews the consequences will be borne not by you, but by them?
"rather than take part in a debate these liars will hide behind every trick in the book to avoid a proper debate" This entire post of yours contains not one single element of "proper debate". Where in it do you make any reasoned argument about Israel or Zionism? "Zionism is an evil creed" is not reasoned disagreement, and neither is "tough guy Zionists breathing fire all over the place".
"a dishonest campaign by Zionists with help no doubt from the crazy cybernats to try to intimidate me and shut me up" Who has tried to intimidate you, and how? As you yourself say, how could they? Threats might be intimidation. Did anyone on Harry's Place threaten you? How about bombs on your bus or in your local pizza joint? Rockets in your nearest kindergarten? Why is it that, whilst all the rest of the world have political opinions and disagreements, Zionists and Jews have "campaigns", "conspiracies" and "lobbies"?
I'm part of no campaign, no conspiracy and no lobby. I'm here on my own account because you raised your voice spreading bigotry about one, single, tiny country that I care about. Not being a conspiracy theorist, I'd bet the others who have taken you on are doing it for much the same reason. Mr. Kelly, have the courage that goes with the grand title of Socialist and free your own writing of all the easy slurs and untruths that litter it. If you’re fighting for a good cause, it should be able to stand without them.
(Josh Scholar) 26/01/10
Yes I did write that and I now know that there is no point in trying to point out to you that you have misinterpreted my meaning because you and the rest of your mob from Harry’s Place already know that.
“Force them to act as they once did”
When I used that phrase I meant act with the same heroic dignity and bravery which has characterised the Jewish people’s historic struggle against injustice.
Alec: why are you so afraid of debate: is it because you know you are in the wrong?
(MacKenzie) 26/01/10
“It is something I would have been a bit more careful about”
Perhaps there is simply a difference between us in courage and truth. The other two blots you refer to are indeed true: because they are unfair and untrue does not alter that fact: it’s a cruel world.
(Parasite) 26/01/10
You and the mob from HP are naked in the debating chamber save for the flimsy and dishonest robe of the ant Semitic jibe against everyone who disagrees with Israel: people seen through that a long time ago: you can only claim success in this argument by sticking to HP.
Do you mean the one that you are not confident enough with to tell me about it.
Force the Japanese to act as they once did when their treatment under the bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki won them the respect and affection of most of the world.
Councillor Kelly, it's not enough for you to claim that words don't mean what they mean. There is no misunderstanding. Ugly words are ugly. If you had half a brain you'd take your poisonous rants down.
(Anonymous) 26/01/10
I had never heard of Harry’s Place until 3 days ago that’s what makes It ludicrous to claim as they do that after years of writing about the middle East and following a policy of never writing to other blogs: I suddenly started bombarding them and other sites including the Guardian with comments: their position on this is completely untenable.
The Guy called David T who appears to run the site contacted me about the impersonation and accepted my denial of having written to them: he was a model of fairness and courtesy: how he can let these people carry on like this is a mystery to me: still I’m happy to take them on.
“Force them to act as they once did”
When I used that phrase I meant act with the same heroic dignity and bravery which has characterised the Jewish people’s historic struggle against injustice.
And how should they heroically struggle against the rockets that rain down on their heads as punishment for giving some land back in Gaza?
No.
(Anonymous) 27/01/10
“I'm Jonathan Romer”
That’s no more a cowardly cop out:
I’m Terry Kelly: I live at 105 Greenhill Road Paisley Scotland PA3 1RD Tele. 07736838146 I’m a lifelong Socialist and anti Zionist now: would you like to try that again?
I really don’t need the pompous sanctimonious overlong lecture: I can see what you have done and continue to do in Gaza and the occupied territories: you are war criminals and I will continue to campaign against you.
(Anonymous) 27/01/10
I was criticised by one of the mob from Harry’s Place for the inappropriate use of a semi colon: that’s the lengths they will go to avoid proper debate and most of the rest of it is personal abuse.
You could have saved yourself a lot of time and cut down this sanctimonious attempt to occupy the high moral ground; it’s beyond you.
(Josh Scholar) 12:10
“And how should they heroically struggle against the rockets that rain down on their heads”
That’s an easy one Josh: kill approx. 230 Palestinian men women and children for every dead Israeli; the Nazis used to do that: have you no shame?
(Josh Scholar) 12:06
Personal abuse Josh: and from your hiding place: it didn’t take long eh?
Let’s get clear what I am saying I’m not saying that you have misunderstood what I said: I’m saying that you have ‘deliberately’ misunderstood what I said: have you got that?
Why Mr. Kelly, you surprise me. I really didn't think you'd post my comment, but you did.
It's just that you can't address any of it's points because I didn't give you my address and phone number, and the writing style isn't to your taste. How frustrating that must be for you, given your repeated insistence that you want a reasoned debate.
You want debate like I want to be hit with a brick. What you want is to cling to your bigotry come what may. The last thing you want is to actually consider other facts and opinions, or think about what might be wrong with your own. It's so much more fun to hate, and to call other people "coward".
The problem I have with you is that I find it difficult to take seriously someone who talks like you but won't identify himself.
... someone who talks like you but won't identify himself.
So sorry, Mr. Kelly: The "I'm surprised" comment was from me, Jonathan Romer, and I'll consider giving you my address, phone number and hat size when I hear that it's a standard requirement for anyone who wants to talk to you and not just your excuse to avoid replying.
(Anonymous) 16:19
I find it more honest to exchange names and details; it gives us both more credence.
I find it more honest to exchange names and details; it gives us both more credence.
Here's a thought for you: Look for credence in the substance of the comment -- which you have avoided addressing, of course.
Jonathan Romer
To Anonymous and others:
I would advise against giving personal details, excerpt from a post by "Clairwil" who was on HP the other day:
'After getting more worked up than I should over several personal attacks he made on me on his blog -the central one being that I am an anonymous coward. I emailed him with my full name and address and offered to meet with him to give him the opportunity to state clearly what his evidently personal problem with me might be.
Naturally he responded by informing me his daughter is going to sue me for reasons that are a mystery to me and that he will will be passing my name to some journalist friends with a view to exposing me as whatever it is he imagines me to be. On past form this could be anything – I have been accused of faking a longstanding health problem to get at him, procuring children for a child sex ring, racism and of course of being an anonymous coward.'
Some comments are really not worth the bother: have you not noticed the repetitave nature of some of the muck being thrown?
(Helen) 17:26
This would depend on whether you believe a single word uttered by someone like Clairwill you obviously do and you therefore have my sincere sympathy.
Ask her to show you the Terry Watch site; ask her about it she is really proud of herself it was her finest hour. Most people exposed as she was would hide forever in shame but!
Cllr,
I have been reading about you on other blogs and notice you have left a comment on the Scottish Round Up site on 24/12/2006 in which you comment;
"I’ve just found this site, I read with interest that the author thought that it was a no no to refuse to print readers comments even abusive ones, he accused me of this. I then got to the bit where the author says he doesn’ much care for me or what I write and that consequently I am to be excluded from his site. I’m going back to read it again just in case I got it wrong, no I got it right, wow, beam me up ! janus faced C – - – but at least it’s Scottish c – - – is it worth arguing with people like this?"
Was this you or was it your doppleganger? Did the sinister gnat-zionist alliance plant it there to discredit you?
http://scottishroundup.co.uk/2006/12/24/sbr12-trident-again-and-labours-relationship-with-bloggers/
My god you're nearly as bad as Paisley Expressions with these conspiracy theories.
“You’ll have noticed that we have never linked to Councillor Terry Kelly’s blog in this roundup before, apart from on the ‘newly discovered’ linklog. That is because this roundup is meant to showcase the quality blogging going on. Councillor Terry Kelly’s blog is nothing more than a collection of badly written, foaming-at-the-mouth rants. Or, worse, just a bunch of slogans strung together by some sentences.
Some parts of Scotland are little more than Labour rotten boroughs. Clearly, many of Labour’s politicians could be doing with their brains sharpened and their minds focussed. It’s just as well the Single Transferable Vote system is coming in” ( apart from anything else the above is hilarious and you must be a cracker to miss the irony)
This is a quote from Scottish Round up: the site that you enlist to attack me! The mind boggles.
Will P. was instrumental in setting up a hate site which targeted me and my family and was eventually taken down because people were appalled at the behavior of him and the others involved.
Nice friends you have – idiot.
Whether I am an idiot or not isn't the point. I don't know "Will P" so don't know why you say he's my friend. Though I'll be sure to look him up.
You said you had a policy of never leaving comments on other blogs. I found a comment left on another blog by you in 2006 which rather undermines your stated policy. Unless of course it was left there by the Mossad sponsored zionist- cybernat conspiracy.
Did I say he was your friend: a bit fragile are you not?
You found a comment from me on another blog from 4 years ago so my stated policy is undermined? I’ve been blogging for about 9 years and you found a comment: one comment: perhaps a week ago I just decided to start spraying dozens of comments about the blogosphere: As I said a bit fragile: are you sure you want to do this: you are already looking a bit out of your depth.
"As I said a bit fragile: are you sure you want to do this: you are already looking a bit out of your depth"
How I look is immaterial. I'm reasearching an article. You previously stated that you NEVER comment on other blogs. I found a comment that contradicted your story, all I was seeking to establish is whether you did in fact comment on other blogs or not. Now we know you do. One comment doesn't mean that you commented on Harry's Place -why so paranoid? Have you got something to hide? Is this revenge because you think the Jews killed Jesus?
(Anonymous) 31/01/10
I don’t comment on other blogs and I don’t remember ever doing so: I commented on ‘Harry’s Place’ because I was invited to: to explain that it was not me who was publishing the anti Semitic comments which were flying around in my name.
“Is this revenge because you think the Jews killed Jesus” ?
In the movie I saw it was the Romans who did that, still: what do I know.
You might want to be a bit more diligent with that research for your article: happy to help.
Oh dear your imposter has been at it again!
http://www.scottishunionist.com/2009/04/could-david-starkey-have-valid-point.html
I remember writing something like this but I never sent it to anyone.
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