24/10/13 - "Broken workforce fight for
jobs"
The above is today's Herald headline on the Grangemouth dispute, it is designed to destroy the morale of the workers. I have written to their comments site and suggested the following:-
The above is today's Herald headline on the Grangemouth dispute, it is designed to destroy the morale of the workers. I have written to their comments site and suggested the following:-
How about,
"Courageous workforce still standing with heads held high
and the fight goes on, the message is boycott everything to do
with this revolting company and join the Union"
Are Ineos paying
the Herald?
Will they print it though?
Will they print it though?
59 comments:
Terry,
I may be naieve and I think that the last thing anybody wants to see is a man lose his livelihood, but if the Company is losing 10 million a month, how can that possibly be sustained without making changes. I am fortunate that I am still in a family run business with a final salary pension, but we have to put increasing amounts into the pot (as do my employer). Anybody can sit on the fence and say that management have won or the work force have won but surely keeping people in employment should be the main objective. Have the Union been asked to propose areas that savings could be made without hitting the work force? I think this is like many news articles we are fed very little information and are expected to formulate an opinion on what little they do give us. I just hope that it gets resolved for the sake of all the families that will be hurt if the place closes.
Ben said..Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:17:00 pm There was never any intention to negotiate by the company this was a stitch up. First the deliberate provocation of victimising the union convener then a list demanding wage cuts, pension, cuts, poorer working conditions, a two tier work force and a guarantee of no industrial action, sign it or else!. That is not an invitation to negotiate that is an unacceptable threat.
When times are good it's the workers who make the profits, why then can't the share holders take the hit instead of the workers? It's the same old story, there is no dialogue or negotiation with these corporate gangsters. I hope people now realize what these people are really like and boycott their products and join the union! Fight Back.
I'd love to boycott their products, can you give us an idea of what they are? From what I can see they produce fuel for the country, which get sold in every filling station and petrochemical products that are base products for pretty much everything. Where should I start?
Or are you lost in the complexities of what's going on in the big wide world?
Will the Better Together team join the boycott?
If so, they should hand back the £500,000 'donation' from Ian Taylor. After all, it's his mate, and ex-Vitoil comrade Ratcliffe, that owns Ineos.
Wouldn't boycotting their products ensure that that workers lose their jobs?
It would seem that you are happy to put your pro-unionism ahead of peoples livelihood.
Grangemouth stays open, the workers keep their jobs and the company could move into profit.
What's to disagree with, Councillor?
Anonymous said...Friday, October 25, 2013 10:13:00 am
"Where should I start?"
You start by getting off your knees and growing a spine. Then you resolve to fight back by fighting this company any way you can and if you are given the chance to refuse to buy anything they are associated with then you take it. If you are not a union member then join, get others to join, don't stare at your feet and snivel, organise. The situation has of course now changed and acting in a way which might damage the workforce further is no longer an option. The people who are cheering this union defeat are the company Iones, The Tories, the right wing press and salmond and the snp. They all share a desire to see the Trade Union movement destroyed. That includes you.
There are lots of people who would boycott a company like this but they are nothing to do with the laugharendum. There are also lots of people who wouldn't, including the snp who are now celebrating a defeat for the unions whom they hate.
The people who own Ineos are friends of salmond who told the workers to surrender, friends like Souter, Murdoch and Trump.
Juteman said...Friday, October 25, 2013 1:17:00 pm. There are lots of people who would boycott a company like this but they are nothing to do with the laugharendum. There are also lots of people who wouldn't, including the snp who are now celebrating a defeat for the unions whom they hate.
The people who own Ineos are friends of salmond who told the workers to surrender, friends like Souter, Murdoch and Trump.
Juteman said...Friday, October 25, 2013 1:17:00 pm. There are lots of people who would boycott a company like this but they are nothing to do with the laugharendum. There are also lots of people who wouldn't, including the snp who are now celebrating a defeat for the unions whom they hate.
The people who own Ineos are friends of salmond who told the workers to surrender, friends like Souter, Murdoch and Trump.
Anonymous said...
Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:40:00.
You can't lose a job you don't have and when I wrote this the company had decided to close the plant.
This seems too complicated for you, best to remain anonymous eh?
Byeck said...
"What's to disagree with, Councillor?"
I don't know if you are an employee but if you were and your employer told you he was going to cut you wages, pensions, conditions of employment, create a two tier workforce and ban strikes would you disagree with him?
Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:20:00 pm
Its easy to stand up and shout from the side lines Terry when you are in guaranteed employment as you are.
I do laugh at your casual broad brush condemnation of everyone as anti Trade Union based on political affiliation. While I am an SNP member yet I'm also a TU member and have been since I served my time in JBE's back in the early 80's.
Why did the Labour party not roll back the anti union laws ? Quite simply because they are no longer the party of the working man, they are no longer the political arm of the Trade Union movement.
They have become Tory Lite to get votes from middle England home owners who's goal in life is middle management job and a paid off semi before they are 50.
You see, broad brush stereotyping...it is often quite wrong.
"You start by getting off your knees and growing a spine. Then you resolve to fight back by fighting this company any way you can and if you are given the chance to refuse to buy anything they are associated with then you take it."
Ah, so you have no idea how to actually boycott the products of this company then... just checking. You made it sound pretty straightforward, but as usual on inspection things aren't actually as simple as you make out.
Still, avanti populo onwards to glorious retirement and gold plated pensions... until the liquidators arrive of course!
Did the herald print your comment this time? or have you escaped embarrassment at a level beyond this happy band of few who take the time to marvel at your ramblings?
The company exists to make money for its shareholders (which will, almost inevitably, include the company pension funds). That is its sole raison d'etre. The union, on the other hand, exists to represent its members and get the best deal it can for them. Perhaps you can explain exactly what good Unite was doing when it was trying to manipulate the selection procedure for the Falkirk constituency, and through sheer stupidity and complacency managed to drag the Ineos workforce into the mess? Unite has been shown to be belligerent, incompetent, and weak. Spin it as you like, but Unite come out of this looking useless. They managed to get a worse deal than the company was prepared to accept ten days ago: why would anyone be prepared to give a penny in subscriptions to those clowns? And trying to drag Salmond into this...at least he made an effort to look for another buyer. What the hell was Lamont doing last week apart from spouting woolly cliches? Your party is screwed, councillor. Its share of the vote in Scottish elections has been dropping since 1999 and it's not bottomed out yet. No doubt your solution to that would be to abolish the Holyrood parliament altogether?
Councillor, does Mr Deans, the victimised Unite convenor still enjoy your full and unequivocal support?
ouch! Sore yin! but kudos to you for keeping up the post as embarrassing as it must be.
If only that boy Deans was as noble as you and had held his hands up when initially charged with misusing company facilities on company time, rather than bringing out the Union big guns to protect him - he must have thought he was one of those untouchables!
"First the deliberate provocation of victimising the union convener "
Looks like they caught the Union convener bang to rights, but rather than putting his hands up and accepting some form of censure he decided to use his influence to bring about the threat of a 48 hour strike (at a major industrial site that is a pretty unacceptable threat to the employer IMO).
Why did Deans not just accept that he'd been abusing company facilities on company time... maybe he had something to hide? and had to keep up the pretence? What could be so important that he would willingly jeopordise the future of such a major component in Scotland's industrial landscape?
Running man --Monday, October 28, 2013 7:58:00 am
"Its easy to stand up and shout from the side lines Terry when you are in guaranteed employment as you are"
You would know about shouting from the sidelines wouldn't you and I have to stand for election do you?
I have all this garbage before and repeating it again and again does not make it right, it just confirms yet again what a clown you are.
Monday, October 28, 2013 10:59:00 am
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It's not difficult to boycott a firm if you want to make the slight effort to find out about them. people like you said it was not possible to bring down Apartheid using boycotts but we know how that ended.
These things need to be undertaken by people who are prepared to fight but Quislings don't fight, they roll over and surrender don't you.
Anonymous said...Monday, October 28, 2013 1:48:00 pm.
No the Herald did not print my comment, it refuses to print lots of my comments. It's like it's target audience the snp, it doesn't tolerate dissent.
Anonymous said...Monday, October 28, 2013 6:23:00 pm You will have to do better than this if you have any serious intentions of covering up the treachery of the snp and salmond in this affair. There is also the glaringly obvious hatred that snp people like you have for the Trade Union Movement as displayed here. You are no better than a bunch of boss’s narks, the kind of people who are very reliable in that we know that you will always sell out the workers.
“ the union has to give an immediate no strings attached guarantee of no industrial action” (alex salmond) speaking live on TV ‘Sunday Politics’ 20/10/13 – He deliberately undermined the morale of the workforce by this intervention from his £1,770 a night suite at Gleneagles Hotel. He, and the snp, and you are beneath contempt.
Byeck said...
Monday, October 28, 2013 8:05:00 pm
After all this time you are still unable to grasp the concept of Solidarity, comradeship and loyalty. Of course he still enjoys my unequivocal support. I would hate to try robbing a bank along with you.
Anonymous said...Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:09:00 am
Soreness and embarrassment would feel much worse if I were to display cowardice and desertion, something you clearly fail to understand because your standards of decency simply don't match up to mine.
Not only that but you are willing to cover up your treachery by agreeing with the version of events pushed by your associates in the tory party,the right wing press and the quisling snp, you deserve each other.
Anonymous said...Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:26:00 pm
You are saying that if the company had approached you and said “you will take a pay cut, a pensions cut, poorer working conditions, a two tier workforce where workers doing the same job will not be paid the same and an immediate guarantee of a no strike ban” you would have said “I agree boss, I also have 3 children aged between 10 and 14 you can have them doing some labouring around the plant for nothing as well, I’ll throw that in to the bargain. Now I can’t say fairer than that can I boss?”
You are clearly an snp Quisling and as such you are a scab, a coward and utterly beneath contempt.
"It's not difficult to boycott a firm if you want to make the slight effort to find out about them. people like you said it was not possible to bring down Apartheid using boycotts but we know how that ended"
Go on then, tell us all how to boycott a single Ineos product - just one... or keep bluffing and blustering (this must be your funniest thread in months)
PS Check which of your stock insults you haven't used on me yet. I think I'm only one or 2 shy of a full house in Terry's Bampot Bingo!
Anonymous said...Wednesday, October 30, 2013 1:33:00 pm
It doesn't take long to find which bank they deal with, that's an easy one. Is there any point in me telling you? are you likely to do anything? you sound more likely to send a donation to Ineos.
I don't know what insults I have used against you. You are only one of the many anonymous cowards who doesn't want the public know what you are really like.
But no-one at Ineos is working for nothing. They all have well paid jobs, despite the incompetence of Unite. For once, show that you have even an ounce of objectivity and admit that Unite made an arse of this.
Incidentally, you didn't reply to the earlier post about the leader of the Scottish Labour Party-I mean, the leader of the group of MSPs representing the Labour Party of Great Britain at Holyrood-and her invisibility last week. Salmond helped to get a better deal for the plant from BP, and sounded out at least one potential buyer. I can imagine that might stick in your throat, councillor. Meanwhile Ms Lamont was doing what? Keeping her head down in case someone asked her for a meaningful comment on her union's behaviour?
Terry
How do you feel the Union movement has been affected by this 'defeat' (your word).
Do you think that Len McCluskey has lost all credibility and is now in an untenable position?
Jim
"It doesn't take long to find which bank they deal with"
Go on then!... I think you'll find it's a case of which BankS though and they are plenty... and the banks in question already have much worse track record than Ineos...
But I'm still keen. What can we do? Where will your glorious leadership skills and high intellect take us next?
Anonymous said...Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:56:00 pm
This stuff is regurgitated crap and I can read versions of it in the Tory press anytime I want. Or I can read your comments or David Camerons or any of Murdoch's comics or any other right wing union hating outlet written by reactionary nationalists and boss's narks, write something new moron then I will respond.
Councillor, Jack Straw, who isn't noted for union-bashing supports re-opening the Labour enquiry into Unite's attempt to stitch up Falkirk, so it appears Mr Deans does not enjoy his full support...but no matter, the man still has you behind him....Stand tall, Big Man.
Makes me quite emotional..puts me in mind of Butch and Sundance, hand in hand, leaping off that cliff.. DiCaprio and Winslet, on the pointy bit of the Titanic...and, most of all..Laurel and Hardy...'Another fine mess...'
The Trade union movement have had worse defeats than this and it is still standing, still fighting the good fight.
Anonymous said...Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:48:00 am
Len McCluskey has not lost any credibility, some people who opposed and betrayed the Scottish workers have lost credibility and respect and some had none to start with.
Anonymous said...
Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:33:00 am.
That horse has bolted and no jobs were lost so there is no more reason for a boycott, you will just have to find another outlet for your revolutionary fervour.
Anyone who says they can't figure out how to damage a company is a liar and would not ever dream of damaging a company no matter how bad they were, spineless creeps like you that is led of course by salmond.
Byeck said...Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:21:00 pm
We can't agree on anything can we, Jack Straw is in fact renowned for being anti union he likes unions to do as they are told by governments and their company bosses.
Comparisons are of course odious but when I think about the people involved in this witch hunt, I tend to compare them with the likes of Lod Haw Haw,Judas Iscariot and Uriah Heep. I think I'll stick with my side.
Jack Straw, anti-union! My God Terry....Straw, the Iron Lady and Murdoch,! With that Trinity against you, you were always doomed!
And I bet McLuskey let's Mr Deans take one for the team , then hangs him out to dry.
Terry, the situation gets worse. Now Mr Deans has stepped down as Chairman of Falkirk Labour Party.
Personally, I think the Party has caved in to pressure from the Tories, Murdoch press, the Herald and Jack Straw..
Or do you believe I called it and McLuskey really has hung the poor man out to dry?
Interesting. I wonder if you caught the radio Scotland interview where Len described Alex Salmond in such glowing terms. I had a wee chuckle to myself thinking of much it would have made you snort.
Jim
Byeck said Sunday, November 03, 2013 9:25:00 pm
This throws up a more serious question for you and the right wing witch hunters. If Mr. McCluskey really runs the Labour Party why has Mr. Deans resigned?
Anonymous said...
Interesting. Sunday, November 03, 2013 9:33:00 pm.
It did make me laugh Jim, it's usually salmond who does the manipulating, McCluskey obviously sees him as a useful idiot to upset Milliband with.
If nothing else I'm impressed by your blinkered ability to stay o the same path.
If Haig had more like you going over the top we'd have won the war in 1915.
I think your view is undermined by the fact you haven't really had a real job.
You are on the political gravy train as a result of services renders to Bendy Wendy. Tainted through the core.
Just so that I'm clear on this. You think Len McCluskey is using Alec Salmond to get at Ed Milliband, the leader of the UK Labour party, and you think this is a good thing?
Jim
Running Man said...Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:21:00 am.
"I think your view is undermined by the fact you haven't really had a real job"
Vehicle mechanic, Carpet factory, Food processing factory,Distribution depot for animal products, Sawmill, Butcher shop, Dairy worker, Farm Labourer, Fruit picker, Barman, Waiter, Chef, Steel mill worker, Landscape gardener, numerous building sites,Distillery worker. I then settled down at the age of 24 and took a job in the Gas industry where I stayed for approximately 30 years until retirement some 10 years ago. And I have been an elected labour councillor now for 14 years. I have lived a sheltered life and you are a clown.
Anonymous said...Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:19:00 am
McCluskey is retaliating using the useful idiot salmond. If you don't know that you should not be writing on this matter. Do I think it is a good thing?, harmony would be better but Labour Party activists are too committed and too honest to bother about such niceties we prefer truth. I'm a loyal Labour Party member and a loyal union man and I admire Len McCluskie greatly.
Kelly @ 12.52
'I admire McLuskey.' Kelly, you also admire Stalin, Castro, Honecker, Mugabe, Arafat and Gordon Brown.
Are you certain lumping Len with that lot will bring a smile to his face?
So no trade then Terry other than 'political' lacky. On the Gravy train thanks to Bendy Wendy.....
Retirement at 54.....On the "labour" Gravy Train...nice if you can get it. Does it not leave a funny taste in your mouth though, all that troughing.
" Labour Party activists are too committed and too honest to bother about such niceties we prefer truth"
So in order to get to the 'truth' you think McCluskey is lying to the rest of the Scottish public about the outstanding efforts Alec Salmond made during the Grangemouth crisis...
It just doesn't add up Councillor. You hate Salmond, but admire McCluskey and McCluskey has openly expressed his admiration for the way Alex Salmond handled himself during the Grangemouth crisis. This doesn't sit well with you, so the only way you can rationalise it is to turn it into some strange Machiavellien plot to upset Ed Milliband (the leader of the Labour party)... what a world you live in!
Jim
Byeck said...
Kelly @ 12.52 Wednesday, November 06, 2013 7:51:00 pm.
This is either lies or it's your memory going.
McCluskey, Arafat, Brown and Castro I admire greatly.
Stalin and Honecker I have never expressed a like or dislike for I have remarked before that they are demonised by the west and I do not trust the things we are told about them, without Stalin and the Soviet Union of course you would not be here today telling lies about him. Perhaps though you would have survived the Nazis and become an informer or prison guard for them.
Running Man said...
Thursday, November 07, 2013 8:53:00 am.
"The gravy train" and "Bendy Wendy"
You clowns have a very distinct debating style haven't you.
Running Man said...
Thursday, November 07, 2013 8:55:00 am.
Retired at 54 with a pension and a lump sum after 30 years service, not bad for a guy who has never had a real job eh?
Back then a councillor was paid buttons. even today the salary is £16,500 a year, hardly enough for me to enjoy a day at the races.
Anonymous said...Thursday, November 07, 2013 9:25:00 am.
So you think McCluskey regards salmond’s efforts as outstanding and he admires the way he handled himself?. Have I ever told you before that you are completely out of your depth when it comes to politics? You are clearly a naive fool. McCluskey's ability to keep his face straight when delivering his lines about salmond was heroic.
Kelly @ 9.52
That answer is a tad economical with the verite, Councillor.
But, moving on to your 18.00 reply to Anonymous...you appear to be claiming when McLuskey praised Mr Salmon, he was lying in his teeth.
I think this is actionable, urgent clarification is required.
Kelly @ 9.52 Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:48:00 pm.
I would describe his remarks as mischievous. Compare them with the remarks made by you about me Mugabe and Stalin and see the difference.
Labour - If you like what we say, that's our policy, vote for us. If you don't like what we say, well, we were only kidding, that's politics don't you know? Vote for us anyway you naive fools!
It's been an education talking to you Councillor.
Jim
Anonymous said...Monday, November 11, 2013 10:15:00 am.
Life is too short for me to indulge you any further as you go on repeating yourself ad nauseam.
If you want to argue stop repeating yourself.
On the other hand I might consider continuing to deal with your sterile repetition if you pay me a fee as you would a psychiatrist.
You as a psychiatrist. That would be a hoot!
....
Patient: "Yes, Doctor, I heard Len McCluskey on Prime Time Radio Scotland show praising Alex Salmond"
Doctor Terry: "You obviously weren't paying attention, he was lying through his teeth in order to upset Ed Milliband"
Patient: "But isn't lying on a serious political radio show a bit of a strange way to go about it? Surely that will come back and bite him"
Doctor Terry: "Naw son, that's politics. Everyone gets it... apart from you, obviously"
Patient: "But, but ,but, who should I trust?"
Doctor Terry : "Just you vote Labour son, it'll be alright"
....
Where should I pay your stipend?
Anonymous said...Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:14:00 am.
It looks like you are probably beyond help from me or Psychiatry.
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