Tuesday, July 22, 2008


What is the difference between Gordon Brown and the other politicians of no substance ? He demonstrated it again yesterday in Israel, he went where many have gone before to speak to the Knesset, few though have been booed, heckled and subjected to a walkout. For any politician with a sense of justice and decency the Israeli Parliament represents the ’lion’s den’ such is the blind anger and taste for revenge that motivates the place, the truth died here a long time ago, about the time that the Palestinian suffering began.
The most likely solution to the crisis is the creation of two states, this is IMO a crime against the Palestinians but it looks like the best that can now happen. Three things loom like elephants in the living room before this can have any hope of success.
1/ Jerusalem must be divided to provide an Arab and an Israeli capital.
2/ Illegal settlements in the West Bank must stop and those illegally built either evacuated or knocked down.
3/ The right of return with compensation must be extended to the Palestinian refugees.

This is not radical extremism from me, this is what world leaders and Middle East experts overwhelmingly agree on, this is the best hope for a peaceful settlement, Israel must eventually accept this or be destined to live on a war footing and suffer the opprobrium of the world community.

They will in due course of time exhaust the good will, which they have rightly enjoyed since the 2nd. World war, this is the good will, which allowed the crime against the Palestinians to take place.

So why is Gordon different? Well his stance is the same as Blair, Bush, Sarkozi et al. but, and it’s a big difference, he went there and he told them he was a life long supporter of Israeli and then proceeded to do what lesser politicians didn’t have the courage to do, he told them the truth, that’s what makes him different, he faced an angry house in a hostile mood and he told them the truth.

Cameron continues to mock Brown because he wrote a book about courage, can you imagine Cameron in this position, I think he would have told them exactly what they wanted to hear, his nerve would have failed. Like him or loath him, Brown is a man of conviction, he doesn’t have to worry about courage or the odds against, he relies on instinct and his instincts are decent and honest.

The press are hounding this man and telling us that Cameron has him beat, yesterday convinced me that they are wrong, unless that is the British people are prepared to vote against him because he is not a slick enough salesman, he doesn’t have Cameron’s flash or style. Is that what British politics is coming down to? Do we want a political leader who does not flinch from the truth or a flash Harry who studied under the late Bob Monkhouse?


Bob Flowers said...

slick salesman, or pension thief? Hmmm seems like Hobson's choice.

Miller 2.0 said...

"For any politician with a sense of justice and decency the Israeli Parliament represents the ’lion’s den’ such is the blind anger and taste for revenge that motivates the place, the truth died here a long time ago, about the time that the Palestinian suffering began."

That's all fair enough Terry, but at least they have one. Which functions. And actually controls the state.

I agree with much of the rest of your post though, I must say.

Vote Meretz!

Macnasty said...

This is the PM responsible for backing an illegal war,10p income tax, data losses, chickening out of the MP's expenses vote, ditto a General Election, the Zimbabwe sanctions that never were, the Crewe by-election and, for all I know, shooting Bambi's Mother. (Saves you the trouble of saying it)

He then lectures Israel on 'Doing the right thing.' The Jews have a word for it - 'chutzpah.'

He deserves to be taken as seriously as a Clinton sermon on fidelity.

Rumbold said...

"What is the difference between Gordon Brown and the other politicians of no substance?"

Is this the start of a leadership bid? I am worried about you Terry- this is the fifth post that doesn't mention the SNP or the spiv. Has the fight gone out of you now that Wendy resigned?

Nick said...

Well, I agree with you about the requirements for carrying out the two-state solution. Roll on that day, I say.

But Gordon Brown a man of convictions? Pfft! Even Polly Toynbee's backing off that one and she was as rabid a fan as you could hope to find! Though I suppose if Brown's instincts tell him to shaft poor people previously in the 10% tax bracket and stuff the economy thanks to off-the-books borrowing through PFI and PPP schemes, she's probably onto something...

Anonymous said...

We've had salesmen leading the Labour Party ever since John Smith died.

If Labour is ever going to return to its position as a major party in British politics with an inspiring and inclusive vision for the whole nation, it will only be after they have cleansed themselves of the NooLabour spivs who wrecked the Labour Party, tore up its values and betrayed the electorate.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Bob Flowers) 22/07/08

If someone stole someone’s pension why wasn’t he/she arrested, take it up with the “Harry Margolis” there’s too much unsolved crime these days.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Macnasty) 23/07/08

Even if the above list of supposed crimes against Gordon Brown were true he would still be in an insurmountable position to tell Israel that it’s treatment of the Palestinians is a crime which will haunt them for ever.

I’ll repeat for you, what makes Brown different is his willingness to tell the truth where others like Bush, Blair and now Obama suffered a failure of nerve, a real statesman !

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rumbold) 09:42

Renfrewshire Council is in recess, as is Holyrood, as is Westminster and I’m just back from a holiday, the fight will go out of me with my last breath.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Nick) 12:33

Brown makes mistakes, he is honest though. Toynbee is an embarrassment to the Guardian’s great traditions.

She would chop down a tree and stand on the stump to make a speech about conservation.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 13:45

Where can I send your application form to ?

Templeton Peck said...

O`Flower of Scotland
Nats stood against them
Proud Gordons Army
And send them homeward
Tae think again

Nick said...

Can you give me some evidence of Brown's honesty? By that I mean some evidence of something he's cocked up and not vascillated on but just stepped up to the plate and admited?

(Citations of Northern Rock, the election that never was, his stance on Iraq, levels of public borrowing, the cabinet's expressed focus on poverty and a referendum on the EU constitution/Lisbon Treaty will be ruled out...)

Poor old Pol, she was right behind Gordon Brown before he made a terrible hash of things. In fact, she still supports Labour and, I believe, wants a return to the traditional party values you voice on here.

Oo, and what a shocking result for Labour in Glasgow East! The safest of safe seats lost to those crafty Nats...

Macnasty said...

Friends of The Clunking Fist are blaming the Glasgow defeat on the lack of support from Scottish Labours heavy hitters.

They could have a point - you went on holiday and John Reid took a vow of silence, keeping his head below the parapet.

Finally, two questions,DID you send a get well card to Mr Marshall and will you keep the blog going when you're an ex-Councillor?

Devil's Kitchen said...


Generally, a mildly sensible post from yourself. However, this is a problem...

"Jerusalem must be divided to provide an Arab and an Israeli capital."

Whilst that would be nice, the problem is a little more thorny than that; it is not just Jerusalem that is important. The site that is holy to both Muslims and Jews (and is thus the real bone of contention) is the exact same place within Jerusalem, i.e. the Mount.

The Jews venerate it as the Temple Mount (which is not only a holy place, but also a historical reminder of the Diaspora) and the Muslims worship it as the place from which the Prophet Mohammad ascended to heaven.

Both factions want complete free access to the Mount, and so splitting Jerusalem (or indeed, the Mount itself) just isn't an option.

A solution might be to make Jerusalem into an independent city state, for instance, the government of which must be half-Jew, half-Arab. This might be a bit of a fudge, but it is the only way that I can see either side giving up that particular aspect of this struggle.


Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Templeton Peck) 07:17

That is sophisticated debating by your standards.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Nick) 09:09

Your list of crimes are only your own rather tainted opinion why should I concur with that drivel ?

“Oo, and what a shocking result for Labour in Glasgow East!”

I’m not surprised you found the result shocking, you clearly no very little about politics.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Macnasty) 09:25

I’m flattered, perhaps I should have cancelled the holiday and we would have won, you are my biggest fan.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Devil's Kitchen) 12:46

I perhaps should have gone into more detail, I believe that a compromise has to be reached over Jerusalem, splitting the place is not the right word, sharing is perhaps better.

Perhaps the Mount could be shared, I’m not being flippant when I say this but they could have alternative times there respecting each others holy days and traditions, like A.C. and Inter sharing the San Siro.

Macnasty said...

Kelly to Nick @ 7.31
'Your list of (Browns) crimes is only your own.'

Oh no it's not.I mentioned some of them at 1.19, so thats two of us - three if you include John Reid - of the opinion that the man is an incompetent idiot.

Terry lad, can't you see, your only hope of keeping your seat is to join the SNP.

Bite the bullet, do it for Scotland

Surreptitious Evil said...


Re your 19:41 Fri comment, what would you think of Muslims on Friday, Jews on Saturday?

It would fit theologically, wouldn't it?


PS - I suppose the "logic" in "theologically" is merely an archaic usage?

Bob Flowers said...

"Perhaps the Mount could be shared, I’m not being flippant when I say this but they could have alternative times there respecting each others holy days and traditions, like A.C. and Inter sharing the San Siro."

Nice sentiments, but the Jews and Muslims sharing the Temple Mount is as likely as Celtic and Rangers sharing a stadium.

Anonymous said...

Terry, the new Member for Glasgow East is Mr Mason, but you can call him WINNER

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Macnasty) 25/07/08

If your word was all that was needed for a crime to be a crime, you would be in charge of the country and the trains would be running on time.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Surreptitious Evil) 25/07/08
I’ll have to take your word for the Friday /Saturday thing. Logic ? Archaic ? Elaborate for me I’m tired.

Anonymous said...

Brown was a warmup act for Obama.

No one in Israel gives two hoots for what Brown thinks. He is the second rate PM of a second rate power which will do whatever America tells it to do anyway.

Don't be ridiculous.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Bob Flowers) 08:17

No easy answers but, Israel will have to compromise, the world continues to watch.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 13:50
You’ve been studying debating haven’t you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 16:27

I don’t agree but, I was writing about his character and that was what shone through when he spoke to the Knesset. That’s why I admire and respect him.

Devil's Kitchen said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Devil's Kitchen) 15:52
Firstly I have said more times than I can remember that I don’t believe that there should be an Israeli State, it was founded on terrorism and on land that was occupied for approx. 2,000 years by the Palestinians, I support a two state solution because I think that that, is the best the Palestinians can hope for.

Your attempts to tar both with the same brush are risible, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the villain in this conflict is Israel. What would you be doing if you were a young Palestinian ?

This year alone something like 350 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF and some 10 Israelis the Israelis are destroying the great international sympathy which they have rightly enjoyed since the 2nd. World war because of their treatment of the Palestinians.

They have to be the main peacemakers they have left the Arabs with nothing.

Nick said...

I'm a bit disappointed with the ad hominem tack you seem to be taking in your replies to me, councillor.

I haven't accused Brown of committing 'crimes', and I don't think that being surprised at Labour losing its third safest seat in Scotland with a swing of around 22% demonstrates a lack of knowledge about politics.

All I asked in the last post I made was that you point to something concrete that Brown could and should take credit for. Personally, I'd say his mistakes (some fo which I listed, perhaps a touch disingenuously)overshadow his successes. As you support him, I'd like to know which triumphs you'd point to as examples of his worth.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Nick) 08:45
‘Crimes’ was not meant to be taken literally, try ’sins’ I don’t really mean ’sins’ though.

I can only ask you to reconsider being ’shocked’ everyone and their grannie was saying it was too close to call, where therefore does the shock come from.

Brown has been at the very top of the labour party along with Blair for 11 years so he can claim credit for lots of things, such as :-

Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s. Low mortgage rates. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools. Employment is at its highest level ever. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries. 85,000 more nurses. 32,000 more doctors. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
Record number of students in higher education. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997. Banned fox hunting. Free TV licences for over-75s.
Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
Free eye test for over 60s. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships. Free entry to national museums and galleries. Overseas aid budget more than doubled. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

So, what apart from that have the Romans ever done for us eh ? There’s more if you want to hear it.