As the support for independence slips to 28% and shows signs of dropping further the people wait patiently for the snp/separatist/cybernats to tell us what independence will look like. What will happen to our pensions, what will happen to jobs, what currency will we use and many many more questions. The numbers still talking bullish snp claptrap are dwindling and are looking more and more like Napoleon's 'Old Guard' ready to die on the battlefield for the emperor Salmond, no matter how many times he lets them down or lies to them, blind loyalty? Gullible? the personality cult? It was ever thus. Some people need someone to die for; they have nothing to give but loyalty; no initiative, no spark of intelligence, waiting to be led like cattle.
"Pity the poor country that needs heroes" (Bertlot Brecht) he could have been talking about Scotland and the snp, from the invented William Wallace; through Bruce, Rob Roy? To Oor Wullie and Benny Lynch they need heroes. Even the shyster Salmond will suffice for the more cerebrally challenged. After 70 odd years of the snp demanding independence they are unable to tell us what it is about. They can sing about it and march in it's favour, threaten to die for it, even duff up the odd Englishman for it if he is not too big and there are enough of them together but explain it? Alas no.
It looks like they are heading for a humiliation when the vote is eventually taken and some of them if their language on newspaper comment blogs are anything to go by are beginning to unravel. They are now at the stage where anyone who is voting No is "not a real Scot." or even a "traitor or a coward" these people will take defeat very badly and I predict civil unrest if they get enough to drink. These kilted drink sodden hoards of bearded, tattooed snarling chib carrying thugs will take to the streets and the men of the snp will be no better.
I further predict that when the balloon goes up the first rat with a lifebelt will be the wee spiv Salmond he will be off like a rat up a roan pipe, having made the bullets he will leave the tartan clad rabble to fire them. It will be a time where it becomes prudent to lie low if you have an Engurlish accent.
"them that dies will be the lucky ones" (Long John Silver)
36 comments:
once again, mr kelly displays his bitterness.
peter mccreadie
As much as I detest the SNP and Salmond, I am still in favour of voting "Yes". And why? Because at the very least, an Independent Scotland won't have to worry about whether the English voting in future Tory governments. And neither will it have to worry about the petty, control-freak authoritarianism pioneered by Blair's apparatchiks on the left of the spectrum. Everything else is just gravy.
Mr. Kelly displays the truth which some people don't like.
I find it difficult to believe you Mr. Kippets. You are snp to the core. You can tell by the sheer daftness of what you say.
"How much longer can Terry Kelly and the "Scottish" Labour Party keep up the pretense of possibly representing the interests of Scotland"
Any positive to say about what the considerable number of Scottish voters who plan to vote YES?
Anything positive to say about Scotland at all???
Even some of your colleagues in the Scottish Labour party can see the sense in Scotland being independent.
Your party seems more interested in moving more and more to the right in an age old attempt to grab the "middle England vote".
Face it, the Union and the Labour Party of old, that I, and all of my family have voted for for years is a dead parrot.
I was actually quite shocked to find out that Mr Kelly is an elected councillor! Having previously seen his comments on the MSM I just took him for the typical naysayer unionist with an unhealthy obsession with the SNP…but an elected representative of the people coming out with comments such as ‘emperor Salmond’, ‘shyster Salmond’, suggesting SNP supporters are being led like cattle?
Fortunately im pretty thick skinned so such playground comments have little affect on me, except that this is the quality of debate we appear to be getting from unionists in general, and it is a sad reflection of the quality within what was once a labour party that has something useful to say!
Iv read Mr Kelly article a couple of times now and, frankly, its worrying that is what new labour have to offer the people of Scotland.
Always happy to have a healthy, and sometimes heated, debate but maybe you can lead by example and leave out the silly name-calling and replace it with serious debate?
You claim to be against "Nationalism" at the top of your blog, but by definition opposing independence makes you a "British Nationalist" if you opposed it [Nationalism] you'd be indifferent or sanguine about it.
Anonymous said...Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:55:00 pm
“but by definition opposing independence makes you a "British Nationalist"”
I take it that’s by your definition? Why would I be interested on how you define anything?
Naylabour said...Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:49:00 pm
You won’t be surprised to find, whoever you are that I don’t feel in the least obliged to worry about what I say about the snp. In the last 40 + years I have been sworn at by them, assaulted by them, spat on by them, and subjected to the vilest personal abuse and so has my family. I confidently predict that when the referendum humiliation hits the snp/separatist/cybernats and their knuckle dragging supporters there will be trouble and unrest. No one with an English accent will be safe for a while after it.
I gave up some time ago as did other Labour members trying to have a reasonable debate with them and I now respond to them in kind knowing that no matter what I say they will have said and done a lot worse. It was you thugs who made this bed, are you aware that your founding fathers were Nazi sympathisers? Something which explains your behaviour perhaps.
Rob Gilchrist said...Saturday, January 19, 2013 10:16:00 am
Only an snp knuckle dragging supporter could come up with such a crock of bulldung. Try writing again and include an argument this time, some facts would be good, some explanations maybe.
I can hear this unintelligible crap from any amount of snp half wits once they have been bigging themselves up by drinking and threatening to expel the Engurlish bastards, that’s why I am delighted to print it.
Good Evening Terry!
Do you really believe that all snp and other nationalist supporters are ’knuckled draggers? Do you seriously think that kind of abuse is fitting for the debate we should be having about Scotland’s future? I’m genuinely interested in what your ambition is for Scotland and, as a socialist (if you are to be believed), why you are actually a member of new labour
Do you really believe that no-one with an english accent will be safe in Scotland – can you really look at what you have written and be proud of your contribution here?
I find the thinly veiled accusation of being a nazi sympathizer frankly quite insulting given my own background, but, again, its what ive come to expect from those with no positive argument for the maintaining Westminster rule – would you like to offer one? Have you so little belief in the Scottish people (forget the First Minister and the SNP for a while if you can) that you really think we are incapable of managing our own affairs? That we are incapable of having good relations with our near neighbors?
I actually believe there are many new labour members who are looking for a reasoned debate, but you don’t appear to be one of them. However, the offer remains open – even though your crass insults remain (I am no thug and I abhor violence) – I would still like to see a measured discussion.
Your who tone is one of aggression toward those who don’t agree with you, and your insults are directed at people you not know – you come across as quite a threatening person – is that what you are hoping to achieve?. Lift the quality of the debate Terry and we will all get along just fine! We may even find something we agree on!
Any good socialist would think it wrong to award a £500,000 payoff, consisting of other peoples money to a departing chief exec. While continuing to employ him. I do of course refer to Labour cronie Ronnie Saez and his massive payoff.
Given that you're a good socialist will you be supporting the Parkhead parents in their call to return the money so that it can be used to support child care? This petition and the parents are supported by Unite- a pretty big donor to the Labour Party. bAnd wil you also be supporting the call to boycott The Abbey Bar until Saez hands back his massive payout?
If not, why not?
http://tinyurl.com/ana4tbs
Sign the petition against the Ronnie Saez payout. Boycott his pub The Abbey Bar. Say No to cronyism and corruption.
http://tinyurl.com/ana4tbs
If not, why not?
Referring to yourself in the 3rd person? Says it all really. What a sad, deluded little man you are Terry.
We're going to win this referendum because we're passionate about our nations future and making a better life for everyone in it. That sort of passion is contagious.
All your side has is bile, bitterness and a pathetic nostalgia for empire. Not attractive qualities to anyone.
Thig Ar Latha
Alison Duncan said...Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:07:00 pm
You want me to sign a petition against a payout for someone? boycott his pub? Say No to cronyism and corruption? And give reasons for my answers. OK I’ll have a go but I suspect from your post that you will not be much interested in anything which challenges your obvious prejudice.
As far as the petition and the boycott is concerned my answer is no and I would like to comment that we do not employ vigilantes in this country we employ the rule of law and to get the law on your side you need evidence, facts and proof that would convince the law of someone’s guilt. A lynch mob mentality does no impress me and neither do you.
Cronyism and corruption? I am against it, every bit as much as I am against people who smear others without providing any proof of wrong doing.
Alison Phillips said...Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:05:00 pm
Since when were you entitled to decide who is and is not a good socialist? The issue at stake here is not whether a payout was right nor is the size of the payout the issue either. The issue is whether there was any wrongdoing and people like you saying there was wrongdoing does not make it so. It simply means that you are spreading unsubstantiated stories to further what looks like your own agenda and as such it’s you who is the villain here no one else.
I have grave misgivings about payouts in some cases, their size, the reasons for them etc. If there is proof of anything illegal in this case or any other I would be opposed to the payout. Perhaps you could furnish me with that proof; until such time as you do perhaps you would consider putting away your white hood and fiery cross and stop acting like a vigilante.
Anonymous said...Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:49:00 am
No attempt at any answers then Mr. Anonymous. Pou araty vun vun a droch!
Naylabour said...Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:18:00 pm
“Do you really believe that all snp and other nationalist supporters are ’knuckled draggers?”No some are elbow draggers.
“Do you seriously think that kind of abuse is fitting for the debate we should be having about Scotland’s future?” No but you lot set the parameters.
“Do you really believe that no-one with an English accent will be safe in Scotland”
They are not safe just now and when the referendum ends in a humiliation for the snp/separatist/cynernats they will be in danger.
“from those with no positive argument for the maintaining Westminster rule – would you like to offer one?” I don’t need to it’s you lot who need to explain why we should leave the Union and you are clearly unable to do that.
“managing our own affairs?” That’s not difficult, it’s where that leads that is the problem.
As for the Nazi thing?
I think of it like this, I ask myself if I knew that the snp were founded by Nazi sympathisers would I join them and guess what? My answer is, not with a barge pole, you clearly don’t agree, is that clear enough for you?
So we are doing it like this are we? Okthen, here goes:
“Do you really believe that all snp and other nationalist supporters are ’knuckled draggers?”No some are elbow draggers. - Silly comment not fitting for an elected representative of the people.
“Do you seriously think that kind of abuse is fitting for the debate we should be having about Scotland’s future?” No but you lot set the parameters. - I am not 'you people' since you have no idea of my background but i am willing to discuss and debate important issue with you that affect all of us. Are you willing to do that?
“Do you really believe that no-one with an English accent will be safe in Scotland”
They are not safe just now and when the referendum ends in a humiliation for the snp/separatist/cynernats they will be in danger. - I want to be clear about this one, Are you stating that nationailst supporters will do physical harm to people who have English accents?
“from those with no positive argument for the maintaining Westminster rule – would you like to offer one?” I don’t need to it’s you lot who need to explain why we should leave the Union and you are clearly unable to do that. - Good no-reponse. In fact Terry you do need to explein rather than take people for granted. Dont you think people DESERVE to told why we should stay in the union - or dont you really know?
“managing our own affairs?” That’s not difficult, it’s where that leads that is the problem. - It leads to....managing our own affairs! At that point its up to US...and US include YOU as you are a Scot...i bet we will all get along just fine!
As for the Nazi thing?
I think of it like this, I ask myself if I knew that the snp were founded by Nazi sympathisers would I join them and guess what? My answer is, not with a barge pole, you clearly don’t agree, is that clear enough for you? - HHmmmm, If the leader of new labour took us into an illegal war wouldi join new labour? Same point really. Can i point out your mistake - i am not 'the snp'! Are you suprised at that - do you see how easliy you just make assumptions about peopl because of your obssession? Dont feel this same hatered (because that what it comes accross s) for, for example the Greens, Margo, or anyone else who will vote YES?How about memebrs of you own party - are they misguided.
Lots for questions for you - i hope you can answer in a civil manner!
Kelly @ 2.37
SNP Nazi sympathisers? Councillor, until 1941, Joe Stalin was a Nazi sympathiser, so if you're right, unlikely though it is, the SNP were in good company. And,in the first months of the war, there were over 900 strikes.
Now, you would argue that Uncle Joe was sweet talked into Nazi collaboration by the SNP, the Royal Family and Churchill and that the 900 strikes were initiated by the same crew, but then again, you're on a different planet.
Terry
You are a moron.
No really...a moron.
Think about it.
“Silly comment not fitting for an elected representative of the people”
And why should I listen to what you think is fitting for an elected representative of the people? And who are you anyway, are you afraid of telling people who you are, not much credibility there is there?
It is my opinion based on experience that English people living in Scotland who are already subjected to racist behaviour will be at greater risk once the snp are humiliated at the referendum. That danger will come from nationalist/independence supporters and others who are whipped up by them. Is that clear enough?
“If the leader of new labour took us into an illegal war wouldi join new labour?”
The legality of the Iraq war is a matter of dispute and I would prefer to listen to more serious voices rather than an anonymous blogger. It’s interesting that you compare that to Nazism though, any port in a storm eh?
“i am not 'the snp'” You are in their camp, and for the purposes of this argument you are de facto snp.
What members of my own party are you referring to?
Anonymous said...Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:37:00 pm
"Terry You are a moron.No really...a moron. Think about it"
Dear anonymous. I have thought about it and I am cut to the quick, I have never been so insulted in my whole life. Honestly, one does one's best to inform and educate those less fortunate like yourself and this is the thanks I get.
Byeck said...Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:57:00 pm
“so if you're right, unlikely though it is”
Why don’t you check?
I think we have been here before about Stalin and you still have the same problem which is your refusal to accept the fact that the blanket of peace, security and freedom which protects you was provided by the same Joseph Stalin and the heroism of the Soviet Union.
Kelly @ 2.35
Kelly, as Granny would say, 'What the hell has your answer to do with the price of eggs!'
Face it son, Joe cosied up to the Nazis until 1941 and there were over 900 left-wing led strikes in the early months of the war.
That means, according to you, the SNP were on the side of the angels. I know it's tough, but there you go, facts are facts. Can they count on your vote?
Silly comment not fitting for an elected representative of the people”
And why should I listen to what you think is fitting for an elected representative of the people? And who are you anyway, are you afraid of telling people who you are, not much credibility there is there?
# You are the councilor not me! For all you know I could live in the area you represent, and even if I did not vote for you (which I didn’t) YOU represent ALL the people of your area, and that includes those who support the snp – that you’re your job councilor, and I don’t believe we pay your salary to be abusive to anyone. You don’t need to know my name or address – I have a right to anonymity if I so wish - why are so interested in knowing who i am?
It is my opinion based on experience that English people living in Scotland who are already subjected to racist behaviour will be at greater risk once the snp are humiliated at the referendum. That danger will come from nationalist/independence supporters and others who are whipped up by them. Is that clear enough?
# DO you know for a fact the English people living in Scotland are subject to racist behavior any more than say those of the Asian or Polish community, and are you suggesting that all anti-English behavior is carried out by nationalists who are whipped up by the snp? I think you need to be clear on this point. If however it’s just something you choose to believe is the case then that’s fine – no evidence!
“If the leader of new labour took us into an illegal war would i join new labour?”
The legality of the Iraq war is a matter of dispute and I would prefer to listen to more serious voices rather than an anonymous blogger. It’s interesting that you compare that to Nazism though, any port in a storm eh?
# I simply follow the point that you make – you are clearly at ease being a member of new labour and everything that goes with that even though you say you are a socialist (is Tony a socialist?). I take from your answer that you do not believe the war was illegal, which is an interesting stand and not one a lot of members of your own party agree with. My main issue is you associating supporters of independence with Nazism, which is to say the lease disingenuous!
“i am not 'the snp'” You are in their camp, and for the purposes of this argument you are de facto snp.
# Well Terry, if I may say that’s a very simplistic view of the world. I am a nationalist as you have guessed but that makes my opinions not less valuable than yours as a British unionist – I certainly do not agree with you, but I don’t necessarily think it makes you a bad person (misguided maybe). You can still try and be civil in our discussions.
What members of my own party are you referring to?
# Allan Grogan, Stuart Mathieson etc – in other words the Labour for Independence group (http://www.labourforindy.co.uk/). These are’ your people’ – are they ‘de facto snp’?
The Russian people were the hero's Terry. Stalin was a megalomaniac - Not many Russian have fond memories of him!
NayLabour said...Wednesday, January 23, 2013 5:33:00 pm
Stalin has been subjected to more bad propaganda than Hanibal Lector and Judas Iscariot put together and all from his enemies who had a vested interest in demonising him. I know more about Churchill and he was a drink sodden inbred cretin.
NayLabpur said...Wednesday, January 23, 2013 5:33:00 pm
If you want to complain about me as a councillor I would advise you to contact The Standards Commission for Scotland now can you stop girning.
I do know for a fact that English people have been subjected to racist behaviour but whether that is more or less than other racist behaviour by Scots. I don’t know. I do know however that Scotland does have a serious problem with racism and sectarianism.
I did not say that the war was legal, that is a lie. If you join a political party founded by Nazi sympathisers you are associating yourself with Nazism and I did not say independence supporters are associated with Nazism that is another lie. I do actually consider your opinion as a nationalist less valuable than mine as I would anyone who is associated with a party which has such a murky past.
The Labour for Independence Group? You claim on the one hand that your opinions are as valuable as mine and then you bring up the phantom Labour for Independence group, you are either being disingenuous or having a laugh, was that civil enough for you?
Byeck said...Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:06:00 pm
Churchill would have been just as happy on the side of the Nazis as on our side and Stalin did what was politic knowing that the conflict with Nazism would be along in time. As for strikes? What is wrong with them? Are the strikers always wrong? I advise you to read about the early days of the snp. Google the name Arthur Donaldson; you will find a kindred spirit there.
Kelly @ 4.06
Kelly, I have a great fondness for you, but that reply is enough to get you sectioned.
As a stop-gap, ask matron to increase your medication.
Stalin has been subjected to more bad propaganda - That is hilarious! Are you suggestion he was a good guy...????
Good Morning Terry,
I’m glad you admit to not knowing if English people are subject to racist behavior by Scots. So you are NOT suggesting that the SNP will whip up anti-English activity after-all (their English members will be relieved)! I’m all clear on that one now. I do agree Scotland has a particular issue with sectarianism – see we can agree on something’s!
I am reprinting your next response here:
‘If you join a political party founded by Nazi sympathisers you are associating yourself with Nazism and I did not say independence supporters are associated with Nazism that is another lie’
Let me try to make my point clear; if I join the SNP – I am a member obviously. You have stated above that ‘you are associating yourself with Nazism’. You then immediately say ‘I did not say independence supporters are associated with Nazism’. So what you are saying is that all SNP supporters are associated with Nazism. SNP membership = associating oneself with Nazism?
Please tell me clearly - are all SNP members associated with Nazism by their membership, or they are not.
So you did not say the war was legal – therefore you view must be it WAS illegal? So YOU are happy to be a member of a party that take us into illegal wars – why don’t you join a Socialist party and convince us all that you are a man of principle? Ask yourself this – would your beloved Stalin be a member of new labour?
Now a point we do disagree on – I DO NOT consider your opinion less valuable than mind just because you are a British Nationalist. I find it surprising that you would make such a judgment simply based on ones political viewpoint - is there any other reason why some people are 'less valuable' that others which you would like to chare with us?
You associate yourself with a party with a far more recent ‘murky past’, and yet you appear at ease with that?
The ‘phantom’ Labour for Independence’ group! Phantom? Here is a link (again): www.labourforindy.co.uk and a statement not written by phantoms:
We are a political organisation which supports a "YES" vote in the Scottish independence referendum. We are working within the Labour party to promote the benefits that independence would bring to the people of Scotland.
Terry, you are clearly in denial on this matter. A few days ago they (as supporters of independence) were ‘de facto SNP’ and now they don’t exist?
And, finally, yes, you appear more civil today for which I thank you!
“I’m glad you admit to not knowing if English people are subject to racist behavior by Scots.”
another lie I said I didn't know if English people were subjected to more or less racist behaviour than others.
“So you are NOT suggesting that the SNP will whip up anti-English”
Another lie I have made it clear repeatedly that the snp have and do whip up anti English feelings.
snp supporters are associated with Nazism, is that clear? All independence supporters are not associated with Nazism, is that clear? Don’t worry if you don’t have the smarts to understand what you are being told but it’’s hardly my fault, I don’t mind spelling it out as I would for a child if need be.
So you did not say the war was legal – therefore you view must be it WAS illegal? So YOU are happy to be a member of a party that take us into illegal wars.
Two completely unsubstantiated, wrong and rather stupid assertions.
“ would your beloved Stalin be a member of new labour?”
another stupid unsubstantiated assertion why do you describe Stalin as my beloved Stalin? Are you a child? Would Stalin Join new labour? an even more stupid question, you are struggling to be taken seriously.
“is there any other reason why some people are 'less valuable' that others which you would like to chare with us?”
another lie. I can’t share or explain something with you which I never said.
“Terry, you are clearly in denial on this matter”
If I am in denial perhaps you could prove that by showing me pictures of the labour for Independence group and a list of labour party members who are also members of this group.
If you want to continue to correspond with me then you had better cut out the lies or you will not be printed, I have been very patient with you.
NayLabour said...Saturday, January 26, 2013 12:09:00 pm
Stalin has been subjected to more bad propaganda - That is hilarious! Are you suggestion he was a good guy...????
Do you not think we owe Stalin and the Soviet Union an incalculable debt. Following the war he and the Soviet Union were made in to the enemies because the west wanted to destroy communism which they feared. These are the people who taught you about Stalin, you trust them and I don't.
is it true your in the orange order kelly?
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