Sunday, May 15, 2011

A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD.

In connection with my last Blog entitled "The people have spoken the bastards" I have been attacked by an SNP supporter in a way which I think the public should see it shows what passes for debate in that party and those who support them. I said I thought that Scotland had a problem with sectarianism and racism, this caused my SNP attacker to describe me as "bitter and twisted" in reply I used a famous quote by Albert Einstein who said "nationalism is the measles of the planet earth" and asked him "was Einstein also bitter and twisted" His reply was priceless and it's why I am letting anyone who wants to read it do so. In defence of his position he described Einstein as a "dead German physicist" who according to him had no relevance, OK he does have the handicap of not being Scottish but we are talking about thee Albert Einstein here, poor Einstein arguably the greatest mind in history is demoted in SNP terms as a "dead German Physicist" his influence does not count in Scotland under the SNP. Should we be wondering and worrying about what an independent Scotland would be like with such attitudes?

He clearly did not see the position which his view of Einstein had put him in and went on to compare the cause of Scottish nationalism with causes led by Ghandi, Jomo Kenyatta, and Michael Collins. Only a knuckle dragging Scottish nationalist could compare the SNP and Alex Salmond with the struggles of India and Ghandi, Kenya and Jomo Kenyatta and Ireland and Michael Collins. This Tartan fool tarnishes these people's memories with his insular parochial and quite ridiculous claptrap and he also embarrasses Scotland.

In their own way these comments provide a little insight into the Brigadoon world that these fools live in, comments from SNP supporters like these actually tell you more about what they are like than I ever could. So, Einstein, Collins, Kenyatta and Ghandi history might be well aware of you but you are not Scottish and there is nothing you can do about it, your achievements pale to insignificance when compared to being born Scottish, sometimes I can do nothing other than despair.





 

62 comments:

Tommy Kelly (no relation) said...

Are you real - Is this website a spoof?

The only discernible difference between Scottish nationalism and the causes led by Gandhi (not Ghandi), Jomo Kenyatta, and Michael Collins that I can see, is that you Brits haven't got round to murdering and torturing us in any great numbers yet.
As for your Uncle Albert, he was famous for being clever, not wise - there is a difference you know, he was a guy who changed nationalities more often than you change your socks and laterally he supported the nation state of Israel, there were even moves to make him president - Bloody hypocrite, I suppose that is what makes him so attractive to a strident British Nationalist like yourself.

Anonymous said...

A sobering thought, Councillor, but of the three you mention, Collins was killed by his own people, while had Gandhi and Kenyatta operated under under your two great heroes, Stalin and Castro, neither would have survived. As it was, under the despotic British Empire, they flourished.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

Hi Terry, I'm the poster you've referred to here. I hope you'll be big enough to let me reply to your points:
One: Einstein commented that "nationalism is the measles...etc." as you've quoted. I didn't actually say that Einstein had no relevance: he had a massive relevance to 20th century physics, but has none whatsoever to the constitutional status of Scotland in the early 20th century.
Two: I asked you whether you felt that Einstein's opinion of nationalism applied to all nationalists: Kenyatta, et al. Well does it, Terry?
Three-I don't think that being Scottish makes anyone superior to anyone, as you've so unsubtly implied.
You described me as a knuckle dragging nationalist: as insular, parochial and ridiculous. I've got two degrees, I've worked in Asia, India, the Middle East and half a dozen countries in Europe, and I'm devoted to my family. And a nasty, small minded, bitter nomark like you has the gall to pigeonhole me as parochial. You're the disgrace to Scotland, little man. You're a toxic combination of labour tribalism and angry wee man syndrome.
I'd despair too, if I was Terry Kelly: you don't have the brains or the vocabulary to articulate that crippling sense of frustration and massive chip on the shoulder you clearly live with.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 15/05/11

“I didn't actually say that Einstein had no relevance”

Here is what you said. “a dead German physicist doesn't really reinforce your argument against nationalism” I stand by what I said.

“I asked you whether you felt that Einstein's opinion of nationalism applied to all nationalists: Kenyatta, et al. Well does it”

This question is rhetorical but since it’s from such an eminent modest educated man I will answer it. Clearly I don’t think that all nationalism is bad nor did Eistein I think what he meant was and I agree with him that nationalism was a dangerous thing and caused great misery and violence across the world, I have never described all nationalism as bad. The kind that provokes hatred and envy is bad the kind which can get you a punch in the face for having an English accent is bad, your kind.

I will of course alter my description of you based on what you have written. You are a ridiculous knuckle dragging insular parochial anonymous well travelled educated family man and nationalist.

Anonymous said...

Nice try Terry but no Cigar. You just look like the complete fool you are. Full of faux outrage and phoney socialism(some socialists more equal than others). I hope you also post this reply, but I doubt you will

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Tommy Kelly (no relation) on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 15/05/11

“you Brits haven't got round to murdering and torturing us in any great numbers yet”

I think we Brits. as you call us threw a couple of prominent Scottish nationalists in jail during the last war for urging Scots. not to fight Hitler does that not count? If you had gotten your way we would all be speaking German, would you like that Tommy? Maybe we will be forced to speak Gaelic when we are independent what do you think oh and all signs in Gaelic as well right etc. etc. you simply haven’t thought it out have you?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 15/05/11

“Makes you think, doesn't it?”

Well it hasn’t made you think has it?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 09:35

I’m delighted to post this reply, why wouldn’t I? I love to display the SNP in all it’s intellectual glory.

Anonymous said...

Any views on Stalins pact with the Nazis to carve up and murder the Poles, Finnish, Latvians, etc etc.

Your not speaking German Terry because your pals the yanks saw a wonderful economic opportunity to cut up the old world order.
Not because the 'Brits' were holding them at bay at Dover. You should be on your knees praising them for dying in their millions saving your British classless society and the monarchy with the BBC English that you love.

Toodle pip old chap what?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 13:23

“Any views on Stalins pact with the Nazis”

My view on “Stalin’s pact with the Nazis” is that it is always brought up by people who find it impossible to admit to the facts which are that Stalin and the Soviet Union saved the world from fascism. You pathetically try to divert the argument away from the enormous and heroic contribution they made.

The second world war became a desperate struggle between The Soviet Union and Germany while the rest of the world watched from the sidelines and knitted socks for Soviet soldiers, we owe the Soviet Union and "uncle Joe Stalin" everything.

Perhaps you could let us know your thoughts on what the Russians still call “The Great Patriotic War” how about the fact that Russia suffered more deaths than every other country involved put together, what about that?

Anonymous said...

And you, O worst and dimmest of Councillors can give us your views on 'The Time of Terror,' in the thirties, when Stalin was firming up his grip on power.

Dont think Salmond has gone that far yet, but with Hysterical Kelly in opposition, the wee man doesn't need to, he'll win in a canter.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,
It is 'I have two degrees', or perhaps 'I have earned two degrees'. There is no grammatical construction that allows for 'I've got two degrees'. Heaven help us if this is the standard of higher education. My assumption is that you are educated in the vocational sector - perhaps engineering or some such applied skill. I would certainly be very surprised if you had gained any higher qualification in the social sciences or humanities.
Umberto Bossi and his Lega Nord racist party are praising the SNP and calling for a 'Cetlic brotherhood'. These are the people who claim that the 'North' of Italy and the 'Lombard and Celtic peoples' has been ripped off by the 'South' and use the same defamatory language about Sicilians as the SNP use of the English. Good grief! Welcome to your knew political allies. I am leaving Scotland for a while and will return when some nationalist cretinoid type can tell me how the status of 'being Scottish' miraculously equalises the interests of a bus driver in Glasgow and the Marquis of Bute.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 19:23

Did you think that this might get me to change my description of you, it obviously hit home didn’t it? Perhaps I should change it and add very insecure.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 18:47

You could have saved yourself time and just said no I won’t comment on the Russian war record.

Anonymous said...

If Russia suffered more, could it be because Stalin got rid of so many competent officers - Siberia, murder, you name it, he did it- of all ranks, when anyone with half a brain could read Hitler's intentions and they should have been putting the Red military on a war footing?

And, Councillor, I know for a fact, he didnt kill Bambi's mother, so dont wheel that one out.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on “THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.... THE B******S.” (US CAN... at 13:56

A very good post but I doubt the people I am dealing with will understand it and those who do will ignore it, that is one of the dangers of nationalism it closes minds. It might be rubbish but at least it’s Scottish rubbish kind of thing.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 19:38

“I know for a fact, he didnt kill Bambi's mother”

Perhaps he was fitted up for the Bambi hit but if he didn’t it must have been him who shot JFK then.

Anonymous said...

There seems to be some confusion on your part, Terry (somehow I doubt that's an unfamiliar feeling for you).
The Anonymous who posted at 19:23 isn't me, the Anonymous who's starting to regret setting you off on another boneheaded diatribe by implying that perhaps we can find something a little more helpful to determine our constitutional future than a throwaway line by Einstein-he's a dead German physicist, in case you didn't know.
Anonymous 19:23 is partly correct-my degrees are in science. Unfortunately I missed out on the pedantry and generalisation classes he or she so clearly excelled at.
Anyway. After I'd posted last night, I regretted being so personal in my description of you as a bitter wee nomark. Honestly. I'm sure you're a lovely man, and great fun to be around. So I'll confine myself to saying that your political views are risible, and that it's kind of strange that you can disparage the 1.7 million or so of your fellow countrymen and women who voted SNP as knuckle dragging throwbacks. But you do have a tendency to generalise.
One thing surprises me-given your dazzling debating skills and obvious charisma, why didn't the Labour party use you to front the recent election campaign?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 16/05/11

I’m beginning to feel like your therapist, would it help your self esteem if I were just to say that you are a very clever person if so consider it done, if we carry on like this you never know you might find the confidence to ID yourself.

Anonymous said...

Kelly, I'm another Anonymous, but that's because you've banned me so many times and I really can't be arsed to to find anothe Plume de Nom.

Now about my comment: My view is that Stalin culled the Russian Officer Corps, prior to WW11.

Your view is... what?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 19:03

“but that's because you've banned me so many times and I really can't be arsed to to find anothe Plume de Nom”
That is a lie and if you don’t sort it out you will not be printed.

voiceofourown said...

For a more thoughtful, less tribal Labour perspective on the election, here's a link to a piece by SEC member, Jamie Glackin;

http://www.betternation.org/2011/05/scottish-labour-a-view-before-the-review/

Bruce said...

Maybe it is we English who should be encouraging Scotland to leave the UK. We would derive many benefits from this: http://www.bruceonpolitics.com/2011/05/17/should-we-kick-the-whingeing-jocks-out-of-the-uk/
The fact is that it is inevitable, you can't give one sector of a nation completely different treatment to other sectors of that nation. Tony Blair has started the chain of events that will lead to the break up of the UK.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By voiceofourown on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 12:02

Mr. Glackin goes to some lengths to emphasize Scotland and Scottish which I believe to be meaningless. The problems which exist in Scotland exist all over Britain and the best way to solve them is by using the resources of the whole country, all of us.

All political parties claim to have the best interests of everyone at heart, for nationalists that means independence which will make things better I don’t accept that, he also says that we (Labour) “changed, slowly but surely, as champions of the underdog and the working classes to being managerial autocrats” So why do we have David Murray, Tom Farmer, Brian Souter, Donald Trump and all the other Tories flocking to the SNP?

The SNP will continue to con people by blaming everything on England and the English it’s a question of whether we can explain that there is no difference between us and that they have the same problems as us, problems which will worsen under independence.

Anonymous said...

Terry,

Is it true that two Lib Dems are worth two in the bush!

Or should I say "save our skin, cause we fear the loss of our seats at the next local elections.

Anonymous said...

Terry, the British Nationalist.
"The problems which exist in Scotland exist all over Britain and the best way to solve them is by using the resources of the whole country, all of us"

Whos's us Terry? Surely your logic must apply to the whole of Europe and then to the world,? Therefore no nation states. but you always stop at the English channel why?

Anonymous said...

A Question Terry, do you think the SNP is the team MS McGURK always wanted to play for or is it all about the money?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Bruce on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 18/05/11

I am a British citizen who lives in that part of the UK called Scotland, any idea of treating people who come from England, Wales, or Northern Ireland as foreigners is for those who need their heads examining.

There is nothing wrong with people who live in certain areas being treated accordingly if circumstances allow. The Barnet Formula is one way of doing this but: so is the London weighting allowance which no one seems to mention when discussing such matters, some people need to do some growing up.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 18/05/11

The actions of the Libdems should not shock anyone: as a political party they remind me of one of my favourite film stories, forgive me for repeating it but it fits the Libdems so well.

Groucho Marx offered co-star Margaret Dumont $100 to go on a date, When Dumont rejected Groucho's offer, he raised it to $1,000. "Sir, what kind of woman do you think I am?" she asked. "We've already established that," Groucho replied. "Now, we're negotiating the price." Make no mistake if Labour had won a victory at the Holyrood elections they would have applied to us, people must make up their minds as to whether anyone with the taint of Libdem about them has any credibility. They have never had any credibility and they never will, they stand for nothing and they believe in nothing, they are true parasites ready to sell their souls to anyone.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 18/05/11

You must be new to my Blog either that or you are telling lies. If you do a wee bit of homework you will see how silly your comments are, I am an Internationalist, look it up.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 18/05/11

Cllr. McGurk and her Libdem colleagues are nothing more than apolitical parasites they will change sides and policies like changing their socks: they believe in nothing and stand for nothing, they were happy to support the Westminster coalition in it’s worst excesses and join the SNP coalition in Renfrewshire too and they now look at the Holyrood result and wow “we have seen the light”

What really fills me with despair is that people still vote for such patent charlatans no matter how obvious and deceitful they are.

I look forward to the day when politics is cleansed of such people, they owe allegiance to no one but themselves.

Anonymous said...

"What really fills me with despair is that people still vote for such patent charlatans no matter how obvious and deceitful they are"

I take it Labour Councillors in coalitions with Tories in at least four Scottish councils don't count. No?

Anonymous said...

How is Komrade Klews doing? Learned the words to the internationale off pat?

I understand he defected to Labour on a calculation that was his best hope for a convenorship as he considered the SNP but they were finished.

Mind you that was before the General election in Scotland. Maybe his views have shifted to left of centre as opposed to cod Marxist.

Jim said...

Don Roberto was an Internationalist worthy of the name.

Ronnie said...

So will you move to dispell David Clewes, who has just jumped ship from Tory to Labour or will you welcome him with your outstretched hypocritical arms

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 12:23

“I understand he defected to Labour on a calculation that was his best hope for a convenorship” do you understand this because someone told you this or are you just making it up? If he is as you describe him he will no doubt be applying to join the SNP right?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Jim on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 12:41

I’m not aware of any internationalist credentials with this guy, more of an international adventurer perhaps. If you have him right how did he manage to go from internationalist to nationalist? the two are incompatible.

Was he one of the founding nationalists who got the jail for trying to prevent the Scottish people from fighting Hitler? Some things never change do they, I remember Madame Ecosse, Winnie Ewing sitting among her Spanish Falangist friends in the European Parly right at home with the members of Franco’s fascists.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Ronnie on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 18:38

I’m not sure how you go about ‘dispelling’ someone I’m not familiar with the term in this context. Anyway the SNP have just welcomed 2 members of the Libdems and Labour have welcomed the ex Tory David Clews I think we got the better of the deal.

I note that Cllr. McGurk has already thrown her hat in the ring to be an SNP candidate, there is no one as enthusiastic as a convert is there?

Anonymous said...

Labour taking in the Tories. What a laugh.

Maybe he is only coming in as a spy for a few months to let you all drop your trousers and get you on to the front page of the tabloids.

Beware.

renfrewshiresocialists.org said...

Terry, I hate the SNP locally. What they have done in Renfrewshire, passing on Tory cuts with no resistance is abominable, but I think you are getting a bit carried away. The membership of the SNP as far as I can tell, comes from right across the political spectrum, encompassing a huge chuck of the centre left as the recent wave of local Councillor defections testify. More importantly - their policies are well to the left of the Labour Party. The Communist party of Scotland supports the SNP, as an independence party and have done for some time and many of My Mob (my affectionate term for my party - SSP) voted for the SNP. (I voted Labour) The SNP, as an indepndence party, carries a lot of support from the broad left, the far left and from the environmental movement and the reason is obvious. It's because most radicals understand that any disruption to the British elite is a victory for the rest of us and there is no doubt that a breakaway Scotland would be a hammer blow to British capitalism. Thats why it gets no support from the business elite, except from nut jobs like Brian Souter (the guy who hates gays, funding a campaign to stop the repeal of clause 28) The reason that I couldn't vote for the SNP is because they are supporting Tory Cuts, whilst they happen to be in power.
You have a thing about what you perceive as "nationalism" a very problematic term that would need much more space to unpack, I understand that, but there is a much more nuanced set of views than you are making out that encompass what you appear to regard as nationalist, despite your insistance that "not all nationalism is bad". For example, would you have called John Mclean, the famous red clydesider, jailed for sedition as he battled for socialism under and independent Scotland, a nationalist? He wanted independence. I know from my SNP moles that plenty of people in the party consider themselves radicals. There is even a faction of them that consider themselves following in the tradition of John Mclean, just as there are socialists trying to take the Labour Party to the left.

Don't you think that as a socialist, and with an eye on what happened with the election, the essence of which was a rejection of traditional opposition party (negative) campaiging and an embrace of Obama style inspiration and leadership that what you ought to be doing, is lobbying your own party for more left wing policies, or setting out a plan for how you would deal with Tory Cuts differently at a local level rather than this constant stream of anti "nationalist" sentiment? In any case I think that Scottish labour is finished unless they can form a distinct Scottish identity and establish a political position that steals the centre left back from the SNP, because like or not Terry, I think independence is on the way and no amount of SNP baiting will change that.

Jimmy Kerr

Jim said...

To be an Internationalist, first you must be an Nationalist was Don Roberto's take on it.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 19/05/11

By SNP standards this is quite well thought out, stick with it.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By renfrewshiresocialists.org on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 20/05/11

The recent defections from Libdem to SNP do not testify to anything other than rats leaving a sinking ship. I am not aware of support for independence from the broad left; the broad left that I am familiar with is internationalist and de facto opponents of nationalism.

Damage done to the unity of the British State would have serious repercussions for the working classes across the whole of Britain, there is no difference between workers in Liverpool, Cardiff and Belfast and workers in Edinburgh, Dundee and Paisley, nationalism would divide us and that is profoundly anti socialist.

“it gets no support from the business elite, except from nut jobs like Brian Souter” and Tom Farmer, David Murray, Donald Trump and a whole host of Tory businessmen and companies.

“For example, would you have called John Mclean, the famous red clydesider, jailed for sedition as he battled for socialism under and independent Scotland, a nationalist?”

I find it offensive to hear John McLean’s name mentioned in connection with the nationalism of the SNP.

“What you ought to be doing, is lobbying your own party for more left wing policies” you are straying in to comedy now Jimmy, I consider myself to be further to the left than you and the SSP.

“I think that Scottish labour is finished” well if we are finished I will pack in politics but how do you survive in a party which can’t remember the last time it kept it’s deposit at an election if we are finished?

What you should be doing is lobbying your party to stand firm instead of toadying to nationalism, you are supposed to be Internationalists are you not, your leap from Internationalism to nationalism is populist and shameful.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Jim on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 07:47

He was wrong.

Anonymous said...

"Damage done to the unity of the British State would have serious repercussions for the working classes across the whole of Britain"

There we have it, again Terry's 'internationalism' stops at the English channel. Your concern is about keeping the British state going not the lot of the working classes, the two are not connected. Why did Labour refuse to sign elements of the social chapter? following the steps of thatcher. Get a grip you are a Brit Nat using the cover of workers as an excuse to defend a nation state that is well past it's blood stained history and sell by date.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

My interest is not in the British State or any other individual lump of land and that includes Scotland, my interest is in the people who live here. One piece of ground is the same as any other, that’s what makes you clowns so foolish you think being Scottish means something when it is completely meaningless. Being persecuted by the boss class isn't so bad if it's the Scottish Boss class is it? You are morons and the rulers laugh at you.

Anonymous said...

re: renfrewshiresocialists.org
There is a strong difference between left-political autonomy and nationalism. Nationalism is a cover for many ideological motives and the description you give of the inside of the SNP proves this. What you see as a strength I see as a fundamental flaw: nationalism allows scabs, racists, reactionary nutcases and one-nation socialists to take cover under one banner. This is dangerous not progressive.
Labour went some way to righting a political and constitutional anomaly with the parliament - but it was not enough and the policies have become too neo-liberlist to even consider. The SNP has an anti-Westminster anti-london ideology but anti-Labour policies. It must be to the left of Labour to get votes because in Scotland Labour is its political rather than ideological enemy. In order to counter this Labour have become hysterical and clumsy. The SNP are simply opportunistic and cynical - I see this first hand at my local council. The SNP guy just smiles drives around with a saltire in his back window and anwsers 'I just want what's best for Scotland' to every question. The socialists in the SNP should ask themselves when was the last time the SNP actively supported workers in struggle. John Maclean was a Bolshevik and a Marxist not a petty bourgeois flag-waver. The last time I was in the company of SNP supporters and members they were fine until they loosened up a bit then you get the basis of their ideology -'let's take back Berwick' , 'We were robbed', 'England must pay' -see? Any old jabber will do as long as the saltire covers it up and Salmond keeps an eye on things. The debate between Rosa Luxemburg and Lenin over the Polish 'national question' gives the anwser to the idea that nationalism can ever be a socialiist objective. Wake up!

jimmykerr said...

Hang on a minute...all I am doing is stating a few facts. It is a fact to say that there are people who want independence and consider themselves socialists, some even in the tradition of John Maclean. In fact, there are at least three political parties or groups (small ones) who claim his legacy and at least one of them is affiliated to the SNP. (Republican Socialist Movement)

You didn't say much about my main point, which was that independence would bring a unique opportunity to break the ruling classes. Now I honestly believe that independence is coming, no matter who likes it. All I was suggesting is that the Scottish left, as a whole, which includes Scottish Labour, should be considering how best to make sure that when independence comes, then it is delivered into the hands of the people and not our class enemies.

If we don’t start talking about it as a movement, then we will end up sleepwalking, bickering and arguing pythonesque amongst ourselves, all the way into a low tax capitalist haven, where profiteers can come in and hoover up all our wealth for themselves, ruining our economy and leaving us in a position where the Government of the day will have no choice, but to cut spending as we are doing now.

We could, if we wanted to, with this special opportunity, shape the future of Scotland. Yes it is just one small country, I know that, and real human progress will only ever be achieved if we shake off the arbitrary division of nation that plays into the hands our masters so much. I get it. But we still stand a much better chance of actually achieving something with an independent Scotland. Because I think that an independent Scotland with the right principles at its heart would act as a beacon, inspiring others to rise up and follow. Now who would want to be ashamed of that?

Jimmy Kerr

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 20/05/11

These are the things that the SSP are turning a blind eye to, any party which can jump from being Internationalist to Nationalist in one bound are not Socialists and are not to be trusted.
Thank you for your comments.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

You hang on a minute Jimmy, you are welcome to send comments to this site if you wish but don’t expect me to accept your own subjective opinions as facts.

It might not be a fact for obvious reasons but it is my firm opinion that McLean; were he here today would have nothing but disdain and contempt for the SNP particularly their leader.

“You didn't say much about my main point”

I thought I made myself clear on that but I will try again. If you break up the British State you also break up the Labour Party and the big unions, the Souters, Murrays, Farmers and the Trumps and foreign capitalists would love that, you do not weaken our class enemies by doing that you strengthen them, remember “Unity is Strength” “Solidarity for ever because the Union makes us strong” I don’t mean the union of the Crowns I mean the Trade Unions.

A while ago I had the great pleasure of spending an hour in the company of Tony Benn and he was at his most animated when he was talking about the 23 yes 23 left wing parties in Britain. What would it be like if there was only one or as the Wobblies used to say “One big Union” one big Party Labour. If you really think Independence is coming and you want to prepare for it join the Labour Party and bring the members of the other 22 parties with you, and as Don Corleone said in the Godfather “Then they would fear you” If you want to taint yourself with nationalism then go ahead but leave me out.

Anonymous said...

Jimmy - what you are talking about is a political programme that you find superficially attractive and then subsuming it under nationalism becasue the SNP have shaped an agenda to the left of Labour for opportunistic reasons. There is nothing intrinsic to the nationlist dogma that guarantees that set of left leaning policies. They can change it at any point and still be 'nationalists'-history shows this. That is the trouble with bourgeois nationalism, it is politically expedient and fundamentally bogus (an equalisation of class differences under the patri that even the ruling clas know even if the SSP don't, is a simple schematage). I have a Scottish Nationalist pamphlet from the 30's that reads 'England's danger is Scotland's opportunity, Support Hitler!' Now, I do not accuse the current bunch of kilt wavers of being fascists, but I do know that nationlism can take on any form it wants to grab a seat in parliament. There was talk of a 'Celtic brotherhood' of nations at one point from the idiot-wing of the SNP but Salmond shut them up - they are still there ('Britain is Indo-Celtic the Anglo-Saxons and Normans are usurpers' blah blah). These are the lumpen who expelled Hugh MacDiarmid for being too 'left wing' - see what I mean? Don't be tempted by free bridge tolls, the truth is that these are petty bourgeois opportunists and nationalism is always the first option of these types. If being a little-Englander is so bad why is being a little Scotlander so much better?
Yours,
John Buford, Union Cavalry,

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. at 16:37

The SNP idiot McAskill said “we (Scots.) are compassionate people during the Megrahi business this sentiment is echoed by SNP members, no one in their ranks has ever repudiated it despite it’s absurdity, none of them has ever said hold on I know plenty of Scots. Who are anything but compassionate, one of them funds our party when not running his busses.

Political expediency as you rightly say is their stock in trade, the glue which holds them together is hatred of and grievance against England, they can’t discuss politics because outside of independence there is no politics for them. The(nationalist/internationalist) SSP seem ready to join in common cause with them despite knowing that they would betray anyone and any cause for their single issue brand of politics.

They did support Hitler, they are held in high esteem by the KKK, they are racist and sectarian and their leader supports the British monarchy, their ex leader in Renfrewshire Mackay supports the Tory/Libdem Government cuts. FFS Jimmy come on!

Anonymous said...

"They did support Hitler...
Who did? Alex Salmond? The Webbs loved Stalin, but does that mean Fabians approve of mass-starvation of undesirable classes? De Valera went to the German embassy at the end of WW2 to express his condolences at Hitler's death-does that mean every member of Fianna Fail is a nazi sympathiser?

... they are held in high esteem by the KKK....
...Are they? Can you justify that?

...they are racist and sectarian...
All SNP voters? All members of the SNP?

...and their leader supports the British monarchy...
As does the leader of every mainstream political party in the UK. Unlike lots of Labour types, I doubt you'll ever see Salmond in the House of Lords or with a knighthood
....their ex leader in Renfrewshire Mackay supports the Tory/Libdem Government cuts.
...your last chancellor admitted that he'd have cut twice as hard as Mrs Thatcher.



There's a line between polemic and crazed, spittle-flecked rage, Terry. Guess what side you're on?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 23/05/11

Alex Salmond has demonstrated with his support for the Monarchy for those whose minds are not closed that he is capable of anything which he thinks he can get away with. You seem to be saying that the Webbs supported the deliberate mass starvation of undesirable classes, have you any idea how stupid you sound? De Valera was cut from the same cloth as Salmond and Fianna Fail have the same lack of political morality as the SNP, KKK? Go and do some reading. The SNP are racist and sectarian have I said anything other than that? The Queen? The other party leaders do not seek independence from the UK the SNP does but wants to keep the unelected British monarch. House of Lords? SNP conf. 2005 Winnie Ewing supports amendment allowing SNP to take seats in the Lords, amendment NARROWLY defeated. The last labour chancellor stated that he would have set his cuts over twice the period of time the Govt. is using, did you miss that or was it a lie of omission? Don’t you think it’s risky accusing someone of “crazed, spittle-flecked rage” when you then write such disingenuous bile

Anonymous said...

Hi Terry,

The first paragraph of your last post is literally meaningless.

The Webbs turned a blind eye to the mass starvation of undesirable classes. Go away and do some reading yourself.

The KKK? Cite me a reference.

You either deliberately missed my point about De Valera, you genuinely DO believe that Fianna Fail are nazis, or you're too stupid to understand simple English. I suspect the latter.

In what way are the SNP racist? Can you give one example of a racist policy espoused by the SNP?

Ditto sectarian. Are you implying that the SNP are anti-Catholic?

Your point about the SNP, Salmond and the queen...if it was made by someone with more than a handful of brain cells I'd say it was disingenous, but again I think it's sheer inanity is down to genuine stupidity on your part.

If a labour conference ever tried to debate whether representatives of the party should be allowed to sit in the House of Lords it wouldn't get near the conference floor. After all, it would break a proud tradition of people like Len Murray, Joe Gormley, Mick Martin, etc, etc, rolling over to have their bellies tickled by a political establishment and a class system they affected to abhor

You really are a piece of work, Councillor Kelly. You throw the word sectarian about without realising that every post you write is saturated in hatred of people with a different ideology from yours. Isn't that sectarian? Never having met you, I can't say for sure that you're a narrow minded mediocrity: but that's certainly how you present yourself.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 24/05/11

Hi Thingmy.

“every post you write is saturated in hatred of people with a different ideology from yours”

You just stole my line there.

I had hoped that if you did write again that you would say something interesting. All you have done here is regurgitate your own sanctimonious bile, do you think that repeating things ad nauseam makes them right.

Anonymous said...

"Being persecuted by the boss class isn't so bad if it's the Scottish Boss class is it? You are morons and the rulers laugh at you."

Now now come on. The Scottish Boss Class in isolation is smaller than the British Boss Class and a good deal smaller again than the World Boss Class.

Tactically it's a good idea to isolate them, all spit at once and drown the bastards.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

By Anonymous on A SCOTTISH NATIONALIST VIEW OF THE WORLD. on 10/06/11

The SNP tell people that being Scottish is a good thing and it makes a person different that is essentially their message, “we are a compassionate nation” (McKaskill)

How does a nation become compassionate? Would McKaskill and the SNP accept that Scots. are mean and tight fisted? There is no shortage of right wing boss class operators in Scotland, plenty of capitalist robbers, plenty of racist, sectarian, homophobic bigots who are Scottish etc. etc. the SNP try to tell us that Scotland is not like that, that makes them liars. The problem is to get everyone to agree to spit at the same time.

Anonymous said...

The people have spoken. Enjoy your continual slump into political obscurity. :-)

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

History is clearly not your strong point.

Anonymous said...

mcrone report .changes in sea boundarys.highland clearances.tory industry closures.selling off scottish hydro and forestry.fossel fuel levy.to name but a few things to change my opinion of independance.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Anonymous said...
Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:29:00 AM

You could have mentioned the NHS, the hospitals, universal education, the schools, the colleges, the Universities, the major roads network, the Airports, the rail network, docks, harbours, slum clearences, new housing, defence, oil, gas, electricity, communications etc. etc. all of which would be unrecognisable and of 3rd. world standard in Scotland if it were not for the Union.

If you are a supporter of independence why are you so afraid or ashamed to ID yourself?

You are hardly a good advert for the proud independent Scot. are you? More like a “wee sleekit cowerin timorous beastie” As the old 3rd. rate Ayrshire plagiarist would say. When will it be time to get off your knees?