Monday, July 12, 2010

EL COMMANDANTE LOOKING GOOD AND STILL WITH PLENTY TO SAY.

There are not that many people in history who are recognisable by one single name or letter, Ali and JFK spring to mind. The man in the picture is one such person; in fact he and one of his close friends and comrades make 2 such people, they are of course Fidel (Castro) and Che (Guevara) for a country as small as Cuba this is quite an achievement. Fidel is a giant of history, triumphant vanquisher of no fewer than 9 US presidents and a man that President Obama thanks the Lord for allowing him to avoid because of his (Fidel’s) poor health. His enemies have been trying to get rid of him for 50 odd years and he has been making fools of them for the same length of time. There is something about these anti imperialist Socialist warriors which makes them resilient, watching Mandela the other night and seeing Fidel in today’s papers is simply inspirational, I hope they live forever.

Fidel continues to infuriate his enemies who have been floating stories about his imminent demise for decades; he just keeps popping up to embarrass them. About 1 ½ to 2 years ago a delegation of US senators visited Cuba and met the great man and came back with stories which drove his opponents crazy, apparently his health had deteriorated which was no surprise for someone in his eighties but his mind was razor sharp and he was happy to discuss world events and international politics for hours and his grasp of events was vice like, according to them he was amazing.

Last week he visited a scientific centre and he continues to write media columns, he is also about to do interviews on TV to discuss his fears for world peace with reference to the US Iran coming confrontation as he describes it. Apparently he considers himself as being too young to be blown up by a nuclear bomb. Cuba continues to be a beacon of progress for the oppressed people of the world and many South American states are following the Cuban example. For those who tried and still try to undermine Castro and Cuba’s achievements it is already too late, Cuba has proved in the most difficult of conditions that it is possible to run a decent society where everyone has health care, education and housing; as well as reaching out to those in poorer countries where Cuban doctors and teachers volunteer to work and it’s certainly not for financial gain. That’s one of the reasons that it’s too late for his enemies to harm him the world has seen and still sees the example he set out and no one can now take that away. How many look at Cuba with admiration and wonder what they could have achieved if the US had not spitefully fought them all the way. Che was to die in Bolivia spreading the revolution, killed by the Bolivian army sponsored by the CIA.

About 3/4 years ago a Cuban medical team were working in the jungle towns and villages of Bolivia they were specialists in eye surgery and the treatment of eye diseases. They were taken to a man in a village that was unable to see because of an eye disease which had gradually rendered him blind. The Cuban medical team operated on him and restored his sight. This man was Sergeant Mario Teran an ex Bolivian soldier, years before as he pointed his gun at the captured Che Guevara; Sergeant Teran was told by Che to “steady your aim you are about to kill a man” years later in 2007 a man wrote a letter to his local newspaper in Bolivia thanking the Cuban doctors for restoring his father’s sight, his father was Sergeant Mario Teran, the man who killed Che Guevara.

83 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yeah Terry and his brother steps in unelected as in all good communist/fascist regimes, keeping it in the family, just the way you like it.

Anyway domestic matters and a possible 'janus faced' laden response from comrade Kelly, Ferguslie Division, International Brigade.

"We ended up – despite doing great things – as the party that was defending bankers' bonuses and pushing forward ID cards," said Mr Miliband
Imagine forgetting wars that cost the lives of thousands. And this, the potential leader of soon to be Retro Labour.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 11:51

I find it repellent when someone like you uses the deaths of people in Iraq to score a political point particularly when you try to imply that you actually give a dam about these people’s lives; you have to be a low life character to do that.

Are you aware that if Hilary Clinton had won the democratic nomination and went on to serve two terms America would have been ruled for 28 years by 2 families the Bushes and the Clintons; Fidel is an amateur compared to the most corrupt political system in the world America; where you can’t even dream of becoming president unless you have the odd couple of hundred million bucks spending money to hand.

Did you know that the drink sodden inbred halfwit Churchill was one of a long line of family members to reach high office?

Sprite said...

But Terry, thanks to the US being a democracy, Hilary didn't win the nomination, did she, whereas Brother Castro was unopposed.

Err...and how many of the Churchill family did reach high office...compared with...for example...the Kinnocks?

Anonymous said...

You mean like Hilary Benn or Michael Martin's lumpen prodigy?

As I recall Obama got elected into office. Labour spent millions in every election bankrolled by an assortment of dodgy millionaires and Unions, difference between USA politics???
Ask Tony how he agonised(during his book tour) about every death in IRAQ and how his faith saw him through it. Oh and 'wonderful' Gordon wrote the cheque's as the bombs dropped.

So many questions and not a janus faced rant in sight.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Sprite) 14:55
You seem to have missed the point by quite a bit: people who live in Britain or the US are in no position to accuse anyone of corrupt politics; I couldn’t find a way to make the point any simpler for you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

There is no one in Britain or the US who is in a position to accuse any country of political corruption. Some people are so corrupt and lacking in moral fibre that they will quite happily use the corpses of soldiers and children to score their own political points.

People who couldn’t care a damn about the people killed; people who are beneath contempt; people like you in case you were wondering; the shoe fits perfectly.

Sprite said...

Kelly @ 2.55
Terry,Terry, you still haven't answered my question...How many of the Churchill family, other than Winston,reached high office?

Jackart said...

Which way are people fleeing on rubber rings over the straights to Miami?

Oh yes. It was the same way as people were fleeing over the Berlin Wall. AWAY from communism.

Which country has hungerstrikers and political prisoners? Oh. Yes, the Peoples' Republic of Castrostan.

You're a disgusting appologist for a vile regime.

Henry_Tree said...

You wrote: "There are not that many people in history who are recognisable by one single name or letter, Ali and JFK spring to mind"

Well, for starters, how about:

Hitler
Stalin
Mao
Mussolini
Brown
Blair
Kinnock
Benn
Scargill

... and a load of other self-serving, dictatorial scum, who for some unknown reason all seem to be connected by socialism.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Sprite) 13/07/10
Why don’t you find out? Either that or take my word for it: how else would such a drink sodden certin reach power?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Jackart) 08:35

At any given time there are thousands of people fleeing over borders to other countries; I have literally hundreds of relatives in places like America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia etc. Cubans are no different; some find the truth out the hard way; that’s why Miami is one of the most dangerous places in the world.

Fidel visited Harlem when he went to the UN and he was treated like a conquering hero, something not quite right with your argument here.

If you visit Berlin as I have and talk to the East Berliners you will get a shock at what they have to say about the land of milk and honey that they expected in the West.

“Which country has hungerstrikers and political prisoners?”

You are having a laugh now right?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Henry_Tree) 09:26
I demand to know why my name is not on your list; I’ve never been so insulted in my life.

Chris said...

the drink-sodden inbred halfwit...

You kowtow to Castro and then have the temerity to call Churchill the above?

Motes and beam sir!

Jackart said...

So you're denying that the Communist regime in Cuba bangs up political dissidents?

Your excuse for this is exporting Drs to Venezuela.

Face it. Free market capitalism is the best system devised for dragging people out of poverty. Communism was responsible for 100m deaths in the 20th century, mostly by famine. Deliberate famine as policy.

Anonymous said...

They're at you again Terry

http://grumpyoldtwat.blogspot.com/2010/07/can-you-guess-who-it-is-yet.html

thespecialone said...

100s of relatives living in NZ etc? Blimey you do have a large family. You really are a stupid socialist idiot aren't you? People are/were NOT ALLOWED to leave the utopias like Cuba and the former USSR. They escaped under the threat of death/imprisonment. People who leave these islands are not stopped by the UK government; even one like your beloved New Labour. They go for a variety of reasons. I am reluctant to say that one of them is not because of an oppressive regime ruled by the elite. Although under the last government they were enough to make any up sticks and leave. Is that why your relatives left|?

Loose Red said...

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba

D-Rex said...

"There is no one in Britain or the US who is in a position to accuse any country of political corruption."

Are you saying our politicians are corrupt COUNCILLOR?

"People who couldn’t care a damn about the people killed; people who are beneath contempt;"

That would be the politicians then COUNCILLOR

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Chris) 11:44
I kowtow to no one; I leave that to grovelling forelock tuggers like you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Jackart) 12:21
It might be easier for you to understand if I just say that I trust Castro and the Cubans more than I trust their enemies. Your reverence for free market capitalism leads me to think that you live in a cave.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 12:47
I suppose there are some people who will give some credence to this kind of thing but not many and they will be the usual suspects. They are more to be pitied than despised.

A whole bunch of supposedly angry aggressive action men not one of whom can find the courage to face me, should I bother?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(thespecialone) 12:51
Try some intellectual rigour for God’s sake; this stuff is stuck in the fifties. It was aimed at gullible fools then and still is.

Castro released thousands of Cubans who wanted to leave in the 70’s and Russians have been coming and going for decades; how did all those Russian Jews get to Israel and America?

Have you ever heard the word propaganda; do you understand what it is, what it means?

Fidel de dee said...

At 62 dont you think you are a bit old for all this neo communist shit.
You are a representative of the people(god help them)that voted for you.Do you really think your venom and attitude reflects well on you as a councillor.
Wouldnt you be better arguing your case rather than just insulting people who have the right to express their opinion about you and your beliefs.
Treat others as you expect to be treated yourself and you might get some respect.As it is just insulting people and then hiding behind comment moderation shows a lack of backbone and a lack of conviction in your opinions.
I hope you dont take the same attitude to people in your Ward who come to you for help.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Loose Red) 13:32
Yes I know about Amnesty International, are you suggesting that Cuba is unique? Cuba is trying to sustain the revolution in the face of hostility from the world’s greatest super power and all of its lackeys.

For every Cuban abuse that you allege I’ll site some from America, Britain or several others and they can’t claim that they are defending the revolution.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(D-Rex) 14:49
All capitalist countries are corrupt.

“That would be the politicians then COUNCILLOR”

As well as the opportunists who see dead bodies as an opportunity to score political points; you sound as if the shoe fits.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Fidel de dee) 15:29
OK I have seen the light because you sound so decent and reasonable, I feel quite humble now.

Please send in your comments and I promise I will respond in the same reasoned manner as you display when sending them OK? But be warned if you send anymore garbage like this the bets are off.

Fidel De Dee said...

I see nothing on your blog about the residents of Ward 4 Paisley North West that you represent.Perhaps you can explain how you serve the people that voted you in rather than spouting on about old communist die hards like Castro.Surely your not really saying that the people of Cuba are better off than the people of Glasgow are you?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Fidel De Dee) 16:05
I have dealt with 4 enquiries today from people in my ward and I have 2 to attend to tonight, I attended a meeting of the Planning board today as well.

I will also spend a couple of hours reading council reports and, you seem to be talking nonsense, if that is not too strong a word for you.

“Surely your not really saying that the people of Cuba are better off than the people of Glasgow are you?”

The rather obvious answer to that is yes and no. The rich in a material sense will be better off and the poor will not.

Thornavis said...

You claim that no one in Britain or the US is in a position to accuse anyone of corruption, you do realise that there's a huge fallacy there don't you ? Even if one were to accept your view of Britain and the US that does not preclude criticism of corruption in other countries, you do understand that individual citizens can not be held accountable for everything their nation does ?
I note that you changed your tack when people began criticising you for apparent blindness to the human rights abuses in Cuba and resorted to whataboutery, two easily avoided fallacies in one post, not very good is it ?
I have never understood why leftists feel the need to defend places like Cuba when they are so obviously failing, can't you just accept that there should be a universal standard of human rights and criticise any nation that falls short of it ?

Sprite said...

Kelly @ 4.22
Kelly, not for the first time, please help a poor sinner understand your golden prose.

'The rich will be better off, the poor will not.'

Which rich and which poor - Cuban or Scottish?

By the by, the only other Churchill to reach high office, was Winston's dad. That puts the Churchills level with the Callaghans and Mandelsons, but the Kinnock clan beat them hands down. Thought you'd like to know.

Your New Lexicon said...

"All capitalist countries are corrupt."

Shall we just say that all countries are corrupt? It'd be a lot easier.

Let us not pretend there are any lands where, wherever an organised monopoly of money exists whether by legislating in favour of big business, or legislating in favour of government (both at the expense of the little man), that there's any purity.

Why would big governments be any more honest with cash than big business (i.e. your version of capitalism)?

It's tosh.

And do you really think the "perceived" poor of Glasgae are worse off than the malnourished, 16-hour-a-day, fruitpicking slaves of the hard Communist states?

Loose Red said...

Exactly. Cuba is not unique. Far from it. Which is why you cannot defend Castro's human rights abuses on the basis that he's "defending the revolution".

The values which stand opposed to such abuses are universal or they are meaningless. Your relativism on Cuba contradicts any claim you may lay to being an internationalist.

Simon Jester said...

"You seem to have missed the point by quite a bit: people who live in Britain or the US are in no position to accuse anyone of corrupt politics"

Said the British politician.

Simon Jester said...

'“Surely your not really saying that the people of Cuba are better off than the people of Glasgow are you?”

The rather obvious answer to that is yes and no. The rich in a material sense will be better off and the poor will not.'

OK... so that means the people of Cuba are in all senses better off than the people of Glasgow?

None so blind said...

Errr Tel, I've got a bit of free advice for you - when you're in a deep hole covered in shit, stop digging and stop asking for more shit.

You've not had one vote* of confidence on this post, doesn't that tell you something?

Oh, and if all capitalist countries are corrupt, why don't you leave the UK? Or is your life too cushy here?


*votes are those thingys that socialists like taking away from people: see USSR, N Korea, the EU

Curbishlyauto said...

I see in your adolescent praise of Castro and his family, you neglect to talk about the Cuban Mercenaries, who, under their Soviet paymasters, were sent into South West Africa, to places like Angola and Namibia, to prop up failing Soviet backed governments.

Do you approve of foreign soldiers being sent in to other countries to fight for lost causes?

Elby the Beserk said...

Fond of mass murderers are you? Oops. Of course, you are a Socialist, and that goes with the territory, doesn't it. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot - all good Socialists.

How old are you? I'm guessing ... 16?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Thornavis) 14/07/10

“I note that you changed your tack when people began criticising you for apparent blindness to the human rights abuses in Cuba”

Where did I do that? I am not blind to human rights abuses whether it’s here the US or Cuba; it’s an easy enough lie to concoct but I’ve heard it all before.

Cuba is a success story whatever way you look at it; you start by looking at Cuba under Batista and the US Gangsters who ran the place and take it from there, while remembering the obstacles put in their way by their massive scared bully of a neighbour.

I accept that there should be a universal standard of behaviour for human rights and I do criticise places where that possible standard is not met but; I look at Cuba and keep it in perspective; your obvious political bias prevents you from doing that.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Sprite) 14/07/10
If you struggle with this there is not much hope for you, The rich in Scotland will be better off here but the poor will not be, did I really have to spell that out?

You don’t do history then; try the Churchills round about the late 17 Th. century all the way up to the inbred drunken moron Winston.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Your New Lexicon) 14/07/10
I don’t know if all countries are corrupt but I know that all capitalist countries are corrupt because capitalism is corrupt.

“16-hour-a-day, fruitpicking slaves”

Are you seriously suggesting that America is a “hard communist State”?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Loose Red) 14/07/10

Well you would say that wouldn’t you; the Cuban revolution is under constant threat and they do whatever they think is necessary to survive.

A bit like Britain under the Nazi threat when our jails were bursting with innocent foreign nationals, conscientious objectors and voting was abolished, shops and businesses with foreign names were smashed and attacked, food was rationed and you went to jail for selling goods on the black market. Spys, 5th. columnists and collaborators were executed, not the royal ones of course but, that was OK because it was our police state wasn’t it.

Sprite said...

Kelly @ 10.01

You're talking the Duke of Marlborough, who, according to his Duchess, 'Pleasured me in his riding boots?'

What is it with Scottish Labour and sex!!

Councillor, you've just lowered the tone of our debate. I refuse to continue!

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Simon Jester) 14/07/10
I accept that I am in no position to accuse anyone of corrupt politics but that doesn’t mean that I am corrupt, that of course applies to others.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Simon Jester) 14/07/10

Some people who are well off in material terms would prefer here but some poor people would prefer Cuba.

If you remove avarice; selfishness and materialism from the equation then IMO the Cuban people are “in all senses better off than us” The fact that they work for each other and the common good is more rewarding than flash cars and big villas, they are involved in a great experiment which could; if successful benefit mankind. If that doesn’t make them better off then I don’t know what would.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(None so blind) 07:37

I’m not in a hole I’m having a great time pointing out the truth to gullible people like you; it’s like doing missionary work.

“You've not had one vote* of confidence”

I don’t need one I know there are lots who support me. I get about 40,000 hits a year and I get attacked by a tiny minority of that number most of whom are unintentionally funny, immoral or just barking, I regard it as a privilege to poke a stick at them.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Curbishlyauto) 07:46

The Cubans who responded to the Attacks on Namibia and Angola were not mercenaries they were heroes they helped to preserve these countries against the right wing attacks by the evil apartheid state of South Africa they played their part in defeating the evil of apartheid.

Are you referring to America, Australia etc. in Vietnam: who decides what is a lost cause? sounds like it might be you right?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Elby the Beserk) 09:39
Let me congratulate you on the sophistication of your argument, you have clearly researched this and you serve to remind us all of just why the US can get away with whatever it likes, they know their target audience; the gullible legions of which you are definitely one.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

You are clearly incapable of admitting that you have just had you’re a**e kicked, that’s rather pathetic, don’t be so lazy in future. I should start charging you clowns for these lessons.

None so blind said...

"it’s like doing missionary work"

So you approve of what missionaries did to indigenous populations?

"that doesn’t mean that I am corrupt, that of course applies to others."

You do realise that Animal Farm was a story not a lifestyle manual?

Oh, Tel. You're funny dude. I'll give you that.

Thornavis said...

Where did you change tack into whataboutery ? Almost immediately, your post is a hymn of praise to Castro and the state he has created, when people called you on that you started to lay into Britain and the US, even if one agreed with your criticism of the west and the capitalist system that is irrelevant to the abuse of human rights in Cuba. You claim to be critical of abuses everywhere and then say that such criticism levelled at Cuba is a lie ! You are completely one-eyed about this and yet you accuse me of political bias, on what basis do you make that claim ? I said nothing about my own politics my points have been entirely about human rights. Or is a concern with the universal application of those some kind of rightist trick ? That's certainly the impression that a large part of the left gives these days.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(None so blind) 12:15
“So you approve of what missionaries did to indigenous populations?”

I stopped reading here.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Thornavis) 12:20
“on what basis do you make that claim ?”
It wasn't difficult at all; you managed to write quite a lot about Cuba without mentioning a single success; perhaps it was better under Batista eh? You also can’t understand why the left feel the “need to support places like Cuba when it is so obviously failing”

This is not analysis this is blatant bias.

I have written before about the lack of human rights in Cuba this post was deliberately written in praise of Cuba and it’s achievements despite America and the rest of the capitalist world persecuting it.

Do you actually believe that the world wide embargo at America’s demand is there because of Cuba’s human rights abuse? If you do you are either a blatant liar or fool or perhaps both.

Anyone who claims to be concerned about human rights abuse and starts by criticising Cuba is a liar and a charlatan. It’s the equivalent of those supposedly anti apartheid folk who start by saying “of course the blacks must shoulder some of the blame because they were setting people on fire with flaming tyres” these are squalid deceitful diversions but you and they do not fool me, I know what you are alright.

Loose Red said...

If you can condemn the British government of 60 years ago for wartime restrictions on civil liberties, why can you not condemn the current Cuban regime for the same?

Or at least not praise them on the basis that they "defend the revolution"?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Loose Red) 13:21
The British Govt. did what they thought was necessary with the enemy at the gate so does Cuba and I have been critical of Cuba in the past.

I am very suspicious though of people who try to make out that Cuba is the great Satan when it comes to human rights, I believe that such people; like you, find this convenient but it’s not the real reason for the anti Cuba bias is it? Or perhaps you actually believe that the American and worldwide embargo is because of Cuba’s human rights record? Are you really that naive?

Thornavis said...

I have not mentioned the embargo and I was not commenting in order to either praise or deny any achievements that Cuba has made and assuming I must approve of Batista because I don't like Castro is just juvenile. I have tried to make cogent points about the universality of human rights. In the process I pointed out the fallacies in your arguments defending your post but I have said nothing personal about you, you just ignore all that and go straight to the ad hominem attack, you "know what I am" do you ? How very clever and how very hard line leftist, I disagreed with you so my views must obviously be the result of bad faith and hidden right wing agendas, no wonder the left is doing so badly these days.

He's Spartacus said...

Ah, I see I've stumbled upon Useful Idiots' Central.

Any idea who said this, Terry?

"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate."

Of course you have.

In and of himself, Che Guevara was not that important. Cuban communism would probably have been comparably brutal even without him, and he failed miserably in his efforts to establish communist regimes elsewhere (eventually getting himself killed). However, Che's continuing popularity does matter as an indication of our failure to fully recognize the evil of communism and the magnitude of its atrocities. With some 100 million victims, communist regimes killed more people in the 20th century than all other forms of tyranny combined. Cuba's was not the worst communist regime, but its crimes were great nonetheless, if we take account of the country's small size. As Humberto Fontova points out, during the 1960s alone, the regime Che helped set up executed over 100,000 people (Che himself was personally responsible for around 14,000), and incarcerated some 350,000 political prisoners out of a Cuban population that numbered only 6.3 million in 1960. Undoubtedly, there would have been even more executions and political prisoners if not for the fact that so many Cubans were able/forced to flee to the nearby United States.

It would be unthinkable, today, for hip college students to wear T-shirts praising a functionary from a right-wing authoritarian military regime, even though few, if any, such governments committed crimes on the same scale as Castro's. One small step towards putting the crimes of communism in proper perspective would be to finally consign Che to the ignominy he so richly deserves.

The Che Guevera t-shirt is the surest sign I know that you are looking at a complete idiot.

How morally superior am I, that I denounce my entire culture as criminal!

cuffleyburgers said...

Councillor Tel- not sur ethere's much in writing to you as you are clearly in fingers-in-ears-lalalalalalalalalal mode, however, if communism is so fantastic why is that people don't do it by themselves, and not at the point of a gun?

I'll meet you half way - all govts are at least a little bit corrupt, however it is inevitable, mathematical infact that the more intrusive a government is the more corrupt it will become. Communism, wherever it has been practised has demonstrated this beyond reasonable doubt, and now Chavez is showing it once again in Venezuela - a rich country being trashed by a lefty autocrat, people will soon be starving there, when the Bolvar not so long ago was one of the ctrongest currencies in the world.

Loose Red said...

Let me reassure you: I'm not into embargoes and boycotts against any country. Nor do I view any country as a "Great Satan". Or a little one, for that matter.

I'd rather spend my time enagaging. Mainly with the progressive forces within those countries who oppose the totalitarian regimes who restrict the basic freedoms that you and I take for granted.

In addition, I don't belive that terms such as "anti" or "pro" this or that country helpful in any context. And basically amount to a category error (you can't be pro or anti a country any more than you can be pro or anti oxygen).

However, indulging you for a moment: please enlighten me as to the "real reason" for my "anti-Cuba bias".

Anonymous said...

At any given time there are thousands of people fleeing over borders to other countries; I have literally hundreds of relatives in places like America, Canada"

I have no idea why ANY of the Kelly clan would not want to live in his beloved GREAT Britain and would wish to flee. Do you?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(He's Spartacus) 15/07/10

“Any idea who said this, Terry?”
If I didn’t already know it was V.I. Lenin I would find it in secs. by googling it wouldn’t I.

The rest? Supercilious regurgitated C.I.A. nonsense ‘circa’ 19-59/60 aimed at gullible ‘useful idiots’ who are still reciting it like some not very bright parrots.

“100 million communist victims, Che helped set up executed over 100,000 people (Che himself was personally responsible for around 14,000), and incarcerated some 350,000 political prisoners”

Give credit where it is due; Che and those evil communists were at least very fastidious when it came to dealing in precise tidy numbers weren’t they.

You have already lost this argument Che and Fidel are heroes all over the world; people like you are a bit of a laughing stock now.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(cuffleyburgers) 07:26
“if communism is so fantastic why is that people don't do it by themselves, and not at the point of a gun”

You seem to be saying that revolutions like the French, the Russian, The American, The Irish, The Cuban etc. etc. were unnecessary. All the people had to do was ask and the rulers of these places and others would have said Ok chaps we don’t agree with you but since we are nice people we will allow you to take over. You are setting new standards of stupidity here which might never be equalled.

“all govts are at least a little bit corrupt”

You’ve checked that right?

“mathematical infact that the more intrusive a government is the more corrupt it will become” “communism has shown this beyond reasonable doubt”

You are on a roll here aren’t you? You have checked all this and it is true right?

Does the UN know about you?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Loose Red) 09:47

“In addition, I don't belive that terms such as "anti" or "pro"”

“you can't be pro or anti a country”

These terms are OK if they are accurate and as for being pro or anti a country? You are now hiding behind semantics.

“However, indulging you for a moment: please enlighten me as to the "real reason" for my "anti-Cuba bias".

So you don’t know then? I don’t believe you OK? But I will ‘indulge’ you. Cubans are hated and more importantly feared by people who have been buying the American propaganda about them for decades. That stems from America’s irrational fear of the Cuban revolution and it’s achievements. Also the fact that the capitalist countries along with America have failed to bring them down.

I believe that people like you have bought the capitalist ideal and fallen for the dream hook line and sinker and Cuba represents all that scares you. You are terrified that communism and the Cuban example will spread and that’s nothing to do with human rights, it’s to do with the fear installed in you by propaganda, there are hundreds of thousands of people who now holiday in Cuba and enjoy it, their minds have been opened.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 12:53

Perhaps they didn’t regard Great Britain as their ‘beloved’ country or maybe they just liked the idea of going somewhere else to live. Most of them coming here as they did from Ireland might have taken the view that they never felt welcome.Perhaps they left when they realised they were banned from becoming the king or Queen.

I know that many of them went to other countries and found themselves doing 2 or even 3 jobs to survive. For my part I couldn’t care less about great Britain or any other country you care to name I’m more concerned with people.

Loose Red said...

Thank you for the indulgence.

When I was growing up, there was a continent and a half's worth of Communist states. Now there's one Caribbean island and half of an East Asian peninsula. So I'm not really all that fearful of the spread of communism. I really rather feel that the momentum is in the other direction.

As also underlined by the following (from the UN, no less):

Tourists to Cuba 2009: 2.43 million.

Number of immigrant/immigrant descendants in Cuba 2009: 15,300. Or 0.1% of the population.

The 160th lowest total number, and 179th lowest percentage, of immigrants out of 194 countries.

Cuba's emigration rate in 2009 was 8.9%. 64th highest rate (and that's with the restrictions on emigration).

So what have we learnt? That people like to visit Cuba. For a bit of sun, salsa, mojito, and faux radical revolutionary chic.

But not that many people really want to live there.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Loose Red) 14:55

You seem to have strayed away from the last thing I wrote you asked me a couple of things like the use of anti etc. and why I accused you of being anti Cuba but you are away somewhere else now, why is that I wonder.

Let me try again is America’s and your hatred for Cuba based on its human rights record? Is that why ships can go anywhere in the world to any country no matter how bad that country might be without being banned from America for 2 years, except Cuba, go there and you are banned from trading with the biggest consumer in the world for 2 years, I’m beginning to think that I really am wasting my time.

Think about why you keep going on about communism? It’s the big bad word isn’t it? it stops you from thinking straight, have you ever considered that there is no country in the world that is communist or capitalist, you are stuck in the fifties and it’s pathetic.

BTW people will not want to go to live in Cuba because it is dirt poor but there is a reason for that and it’s not communism but; you are afraid to admit the reason aren’t you.

Anonymous said...

"If you remove avarice; selfishness and materialism from the equation then IMO the Cuban people are “in all senses better off than us” The fact that they work for each other and the common good is more rewarding than flash cars and big villas, they are involved in a great experiment which could; if successful benefit mankind. If that doesn’t make them better off then I don’t know what would."
---

You do realise that a good commie should eschew such fluff as mere symbolism, a distraction from what was always supposed to be a struggle grounded in the material. Here you're beginning to sound like a cultist. 'Sure, they may be starving, but their souls are pure'.

Hell, do you honestly believe that people living under a communist regime become less preoccupied with gain and more concerned with the common good? Ever work with a Russian? They have a pimp scale fixation with tacky displays of wealth and status, and will cut your throat for two pins.

And if Joe Average Brit can't finger another state as corrupt, how much less so can a minor functionary for the party that gave us such masterpieces of lese-majeste as the Criminal Justice Act and the invasion of Iraq.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 18:06

You sound like a shallow and completely soulless character, I think that mankind is capable of higher things; I believe we can create better societies and I believe that I have history on my side. The world’s greatest heroes and the most heroic actions that mankind has ever performed have been done for ideals not material gain.

Some people possibly you are so wrapped up in themselves, so stunted emotionally that they may well be lost causes, you become completely base you have no vision; you are incapable of raising your gaze, you sneer at people with ideals because morally you are no more than a shell. If that’s you then you have my sympathy.

Iraq is never far away when you people engage in debate is it? It’s like a comfort blanket to you, throw in Iraq when you haven’t got a valid argument, very depressing.

Have you ever heard the saying “one volunteer is better than 10 pressed men” if you were given the choice you would rather buy a Rolls Royce than feed a hungry child, no wonder the planet is in such a state.

“They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?” (Fidel Castro)

go figure.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 18:06 again.

I believe ideas and symbolism are vitally important. But a romantic attachment to a frankly imaginary social order is the absolute antithesis of the ideology you profess. You are cheerleading for a Marxist and Marxism is all about materialism. It's your point to defend.

---
Some people possibly you are so wrapped up in themselves, so stunted emotionally that they may well be lost causes, you become completely base you have no vision; you are incapable of raising your gaze, you sneer at people with ideals because morally you are no more than a shell. If that’s you then you have my sympathy.
---

You are 180 degrees wrong. But I'll give you a pass because I used to write ideological opponents off in eerily similar language.

---
Iraq is never far away when you people engage in debate is it? It’s like a comfort blanket to you, throw in Iraq when you haven’t got a valid argument, very depressing.
---

Kind of appropriate when you're a card carrying member of the party that did the deed though isn't it?

---
Have you ever heard the saying “one volunteer is better than 10 pressed men”...
---

Yes, and it's completely irrelevant (not to mention inaccurate) as was everything below that point.

Thornavis said...

To return to the Churchill theme for a moment, I assume your mention of the late Seventeenth century was a reference to the Duke of Marlborough and his wife ? The Duke achieved his position by virtue of being perhaps the best general Britain ever had ( I don't suppose you'd approve but I'm just dealing with facts here ) and his wife was a favourite of Queen Anne, for a while anyway, which was about the only way an intelligent and ambitious woman could achieve influence in those days. Then there's a gap of a century and a half until Lord Randolph Churchill another who achieved high office on his own merits. Hardly a dynasty is it ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Thornavis) 13:11

( I don't suppose you'd approve but I'm just dealing with facts here )

FFS! do things become facts now because you say so? You need a reality check, have you any idea what you sound like?

If Winston’s surname had been Jones he would have struggled to hold down a job as a shammy wringer for a one armed window cleaner.

Try the late 15 th. century and explore the name Spencer as well and stop either being disingenuous or stupid whichever it is.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 16/07/10

In politics I am the least romantic person you will come across.

“party that did the deed though isn't it?”

You can’t stand on your own two feet without exploiting Iraq can you, all those dead people are very useful to you, you just love waiting for the daily count don’t you?

“Yes, and it's completely irrelevant (not to mention inaccurate) as was everything below that point”

It is a well known saying not a statement of fact it is designed to make you think God help us.

Everything below that point is 100% relevant and accurate and that is true because I said so, so there!

Thornavis said...

You really are incredibly touchy, when I said I was dealing with facts I meant that I was avoiding subjective judgements about the politics of the era and just discussing John Churchill's achievements, which were considerable.
Yes of course Winston Churchill had a leg up by virtue of his background but to start with he didn't make much of it and it was only later that he achieved success, largely through his own efforts. Plenty of other people had the advantages of birth and did nothing with it, just as plenty of 'low born' people made an impact on society. The only reason I mentioned any of this in the first place was because of Fidel Castro's handing on of power to his brother, is that how a socialist should behave ? This kind of thing is common in communist countries, North Korea is the obvious example but nepotism and cronyism were rife in all the old communist states, it is inevitable in an undemocratic power obsessed society.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Thornavis) 13:27

“You really are incredibly touchy”

If drawing attention to your laziness and hubris is touchy then I am guilty.

“Yes of course Winston Churchill had a leg up by virtue of his background but to start with he didn't make much of it”

Right on both accounts at last, but the reason he didn’t make much of it is because he was an upper class well connected oaf, in fact he was worse than that but his family took the view that half an oaf etc.

“Fidel Castro's handing on of power to his brother”

Had Hilary Clinton won the presidency and served two terms America would have been governed for 28 years by two families, the Bushes and the Clintons.

“nepotism and cronyism were rife in all the old communist states”

It must be comforting for you to know that such things don’t happen in Capitalist States and in Capitalist States we also have the tooth fairy: those dirty commies don’t have that do they?

Thornavis said...

Lazyness and hubris ? I can't see how you draw those conclusions from my comments, especially hubris, what nemesis do I have coming my way ? I'd be interested to know. The Clinton comparison has already been dealt with by others but to try again here's a clue, try the word 'election'.
Do you really suppose that I think that capitalist societies are free from corruption ? The difference is that these days most of them are democracies and there's a chance to do something about it without ending up in chokey or worse. Anyway I thought the whole point about socialism was that it was supposed to be a better system, a step up from capitalism, apparently not. This is very similar to the labour election campaign which amounted to little more than, yes we've been crap but the Tories are just as bad, very inspiring.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Thornavis) 16:00
Laziness for not bothering to check the Churchill background and hubris for thinking you could get away with it.
Was there an election when Major took over from Thatcher? When Callahan took over from Wilson? When Brown took over from Blair? There are more if you care to go looking but I doubt you will.
As I said laziness and hubris; stop making a fool of yourself.

Thornavis said...

Well this just gets more bizarre really, what didn't I check in Churchill's background ? I'm genuinely at a loss here, you just seem to be arguing with someone in your own head to whom you've attached my on line name. You're missing the point here anyway, I was arguing that Churchill was not part of a dynasty ie. that he didn't achieve office solely or even mainly through family connections, the fact that you mention his family's low opinion of him rather tends to confirm that. Neither was he the heir to some unbroken line of powerful establishment figures, what he achieved and where he failed were the product of his own efforts. You seem to see him as some kind of perpetual drunk, have you considered that his drinking may have been an attempt to self medicate his bouts of depression ?
No there weren't any elections when the people you mention took over from previous Prime Ministers, you could argue that as a flaw in our parliamentary system or you could see it is a by- product of a collective cabinet based executive, either way it would be beside the point. The elections came later and the electorate were able to vote for or against the parties concerned, that doesn't happen in Cuba does it ?

He's Spartacus said...

Terry, old stick, you really ought to research your subject a little more before committing yourself to an answer.

The quote, as any pimply sociology undergraduate would know, let alone a self-appointed expert such as yourself, was made by Ernesto "Che" Guevara at the United Nations.

Here are are a few more of his pithier efforts, just to get your juices really flowing....

Che the fearless warrior:

“Don’t Shoot! I’m Che! I’m worth to you more alive than dead!” (whimpered while dropping his fully-loaded weapon and raising his hands when he and fellow guerrilla Willy were confronted by....wait for it....two Bolivian soldiers, on October 8th 1967 at Quebrada de Yuro, Bolivia.)

Che the anti-racist:

“The Negro is indolent and spends his money on frivolities and booze, whereas the European is forward-looking, organized and intelligent.”

“What will our Revolution do for blacks? Why, we’ll do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the Cuban revolution. By which I mean: NOTHING!”

“The negro has mantained his racial purity by his well known habit of avoiding baths.”

“Mexicans are a rabble of illiterate Indians.”

Che the statesman:

“The solutions to the world’s problems lie behind the Iron Curtain. If the nuclear missiles had remained we would have fired them against the heart of the U.S. including New York City. The victory of socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims.”

Che the champion of the poor:

“Animalitos” (referring to Bolivian campesinos)

Hombre muerto. Idea Muerta.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

“he didn't achieve office solely or even mainly through family connections”

And I’m saying he absolutely did.

“what he achieved and where he failed were the product of his own efforts”

Rubbish; do you think that repeating this stuff will make it correct?

“have you considered that his drinking may have been an attempt to self medicate his bouts of depression”

Get a grip of yourself he was a drunk; end of story.

“The elections came later and the electorate were able to vote for or against the parties concerned, that doesn't happen in Cuba does it ?”

Cuba has elections with 98% turn outs.

Thornavis said...

This has been most entertaining but I must stop now as I have seen more than enough to convince me that the old unreconstructed Stalinist left is still alive and kicking. It's quite comforting really, rather like turning down a country road and encountering a traction engine, it's time is long past and you would never let it anywhere near real work but it's lovely to watch it clanking and puffing away like it was still 1910.
Oh and thank you for that 98% turnout in Cuban elections thing, best laugh I've had all week.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(He's Spartacus) 18/07/10
“The quote was made by Ernesto "Che" Guevara at the United Nations”

Lenin used the phrase ‘Useful Idiots’ which I was referring to.

Che has hundreds of quotes this one is a statement of fact as he seen it; previous revolutions bear him out, arbitrary killings are the order of the day in most revolutions, there are no rules when the fighting starts. It’s rather simple, do it to them before they do it to you. That is why Fidel won; the insurgents were fighting for a cause while Batista’s troops were fighting because they were being paid.

Che. and his men's thoughts would have been something like this. "I’m going to overthrow the Govt. in a revolution and I think they won’t be pleased; they are likely to kill me if they get the chance so I am going to kill them first because I hate them"

The rest of this is as I said before is, Supercilious regurgitated C.I.A. nonsense ‘circa’ 19-59/60 aimed at gullible ‘useful idiots’ who are still reciting it like some not very bright parrots.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Thornavis) 12:27
There is nothing quite as bad as a bad loser.

Anonymous said...

since you say "I get about 40,000 hits a year and I get attacked by a tiny minority of that number most of whom are unintentionally funny, immoral or just barking", i'd better leave a comment now I've visited your site.

you're an idiot, man. Cuba is a dictatorship people are literally dying to get out of. the only things propping up its corrupt and exhausted regime are venezuelan money and the stupid US policy of isolation and sanctions.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 24/07/10
Thank you for the ringing endorsement of my description of the minority who attack me you are a perfect example.

Can you explain how the US’s treatment of Cuba ‘props it up’