Tuesday, February 16, 2010

"VISIT THE PRISONER" (JESUS)

How should a convicted prisoner spend his/her time in prison? We provide a cell, a bed: food: medical access etc. when a prisoner is sentenced what should be taken away? Should recreation be provided: education: access to a library: TV etc. Is it right to lock someone up for say 5 years and release them as they were when they came in e.g. unable to read and write in some cases: unable to do the most menial jobs because of a total lack of training in others. It might sound tough to deny them such things but does it work? Prison is there for two reasons: to punish and to rehabilitate: we do plenty of the former and very little of the latter if we are serious about cutting crime and prison numbers this has got to change. When someone is released he/she should be as ready as is possible to reintegrate in to society in a normal seamless way: it is important therefore that the prisoner feels that they have a stake in that society: that is why IMO they should be allowed to vote while in prison.

A huge number of prisoners are watching with interest to see if they will be allowed to vote at the next election: many of them will not be doing so out of any great desire to play their part in democracy: perhaps that will come later. Right now they are waiting to see if Britain will break the law by disenfranchising them: by law according to a European ruling they must be allowed to vote and can sue if denied that right: some no doubt will be hoping to sue rather than vote. Will Britain break the law and tell our own law breakers in jail that they will not be allowed to vote? A delicious irony: acting tough and ignoring European law has brought us to this embarrassing juncture: hell mend them. Prison reform is long overdue and voting rights for prisoners is part of that reform it has existed in more enlightened Europe for years and it’s time we caught up.

Sticking to matters of a legal nature: I argued with quite a lot of people about the release of the Libyan Mr. Megrahi I supported his release and was attacked for doing so. The usual saloon bar tough guys wanted him to rot in jail and dusted down the old nonsense about “life meaning life” and “no release under any circumstances” “let him rot and die in jail” blood curdling stuff which gets worse as mor drink is consumed. Yesterday we caught a glimpse of the reality of that policy from the USA our barbaric special friends across the pond. Deaf, wheelchair bound: nearly blind, with dementia and also mentally ill 94 year old Viva Leroy Nash died while waiting to be executed on Death Row: all in he spent 53 years in prison. This is the reality of vengeance not punishment or rehabilitation: if people want this kind of thing then they should study it close up and understand what it truly means. A 94 year old who is barely alive and knows nothing about his whereabouts or what is happening to him waits to die in some hellish gas chamber or gallows in the richest most powerful country in the history of the planet: support this if you must celebrate it if you think fit but IMO it reminds us that we are not that much further on from our cavemen ancestors.

14 comments:

Oakwood said...

I feel if someone is sentenced to 5 years (for example) then they should serve 5 years unless they have shown remorse for their crimes or have attempted to rehabilitate themselves through training or education whilst incarcerated which would allow them, in my view, some form of conditional parole and also help to reintegrate into society.

I do not agree with automatic remission and feel that this should be earned.

People who have been imprisoned are there largely by circumstance and it is widely accepted that there is a causal link to crime & poverty. I am not suggesting the poor people do not know the difference between right & wrong as in my experience they are fully aware which side of that equation they live on and in many cases it is a way of basic survival.

I believe that prisoners should have some form of exercise / recreation although I am uneasy reading newspaper articles saying that the have Sky Sports and turkey dinners etc. etc. when many law abiding people can’t afford it even if they wanted to.

Should prisoners be allowed to vote? My instinct is no as I feel that if someone is imprisoned it is because they have not conformed to the norms of society and as a result should lose some privileges that society gives such as liberty and freedom of expression. People should only get those privileges returned when they have paid their debt. Anyway I don’t think it is a big deal whether you are inside or outside a prison.

Do you think it is right and proper that someone convicted of embezzlement should be allowed to vote for a politician who should have been convicted of embezzlement?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Oakwood) 16/02/10
If prisoners do not co-operate in prison they will not get remission.

Having been involved with the prison system as a councillor I can assure you that the stories about Sky Sports are nonsense, they do get a Christmas dinner though.

The question is not should they have the right to vote, they already have that, will Britain break the law by refusing them this right, that’s the question.
Someone who has been convicted of embezzlement should be allowed to vote but you should not be allowed to decide if a politician or anyone else for that matter should or should not be convicted for embezzlement.

Karian said...

I am a very level headed and open minded woman, but I believe murderers should NEVER be released,
I am all for letting them do hard time in a low cost, high security establishment like tent city in arizona.
petty crime should be dealt with as best possible with aims to rehabilitate.
Young offenders a lot of them are gang/peer related and releasing them to the same area is just placing them back to reoffend they need to relocate these young kids into youth facilites/hostels a fair distance from their home turf to give them a decent chance of moving on and becoming a decent citizen.
Crime/Poverty maybe related but in reality they dont have to be, I am not by any means well off but I do know right from wrong and have strong family values installed in me.
I think prisoners should have basic needs looked after, fresh drinking water, a bed, toilet and 3 meals a day everything else is a luxury they should be denied unless they are first time offenders. First time offenders should be given ever chance to turn their life around and make a change but if they reoffend then they get no 2nd/3rd or 4th chance thats why our country is struggling so bad. I know numarace people who have served time and have came out saying it wasnt nearly as bad as they thought, one of which came out thinking he was a big man because he had more "contacts"

I think the whole prison system needs reformed.

As for sexual abuse criminals find a desert island a dump them all on it and let them abuse one another.

Each case dealt with is different but judges need to give the most severe sentence possible so people realise that we will not tolerate that type of behaviour in our world today.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Karian) 21/04/10
“but I believe murderers should NEVER be released –
I am all for letting them do hard time in a low cost, high security establishment like tent city in Arizona –
relocate these young kids into youth facilites/hostels a fair distance from their home –
prisoners should have basic needs looked after, fresh drinking water, a bed, toilet and 3 meals a day everything else is a luxury they should be denied –
if they reoffend then they get no 2nd/3rd or 4th chance –
As for sexual abuse criminals find a desert island a dump them all on it and let them abuse one another –
I am a very level headed and open minded woman”
No you are not; you are a Nazi.

Karian said...

Mr Kelly that is your opinion, when you have first hand had family being subjected to peer pressure with no stable family to help rehabilitate them and give them guidance of right and wrong and being continually in and out of young offenders since they were 16 and before their 21st they are jailed for 8yrs for killing a man.
Is 8yrs enough for a mans life?
I knew this kid and did try to stop this from happening but by then a 14yr old he was too far gone, what type of society are we that we cant straighten out a 14yr old to prevent stuff like this.
We need strict sanctions so that our youth realise it is not a joke.
if this young guy had been relocated and given PROPER guidance and support, I really believe he could have turned his life around.

I am not a nazi, I am just one woman who is sick of my country, a country I am trying to raise two children in is needing to address these issues and stop allowing good law abiding citizens paying for all the criminals we have in our society.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Karian) 26/04/10

You have your opinion and I have mine yours is a reactionary one which thinks that prisons and punishment are not severe enough I fundamentally disagree with that.

I believe that type of reaction stems from frustration and ignorance and your solutions simply do not work.

I have no illusions about crime and plenty of experience of the criminal justice and penal systems in this country; I do not need or desire you’re ill advised and revenge driven lectures on the subject.

Karian said...

Ignorance!!!
Sorry but I can assure you I am anything but.
Does our penal system work? NO
Do we have a good rehabilatation record? NO
Do you honestly think a slap on the wrist is working? NO

Now who is ignorant?
Words - head, in, sand, springs to mind.


Lecture!!! sorry I was just pointing out a fact, one of many instances.

Our criminal justice system is failing all of the society, our law abiding citizens, first time offenders and youth offenders who could perhaps be "saved"
hardened criminals should NEVER be allowed to influence our youth.

but like you said and the only comment I agree with is -
you have your opinion I have mine.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Karian) 07:02
Your attitude to this subject is borne of ignorance; reaction and laziness, it’s the easy answer for people like you every time and it doesn’t work.
I don’t need your reactionary lectures because I can get them anytime by reading the Sun newspaper editorials.

Karian said...

Sorry but.....
Your just really slinging mud now suppose that what you politicians do best.
I believe in freedom of speech, and do believe in innocent until proven guilty, but once guilt is proven throw the bloody book at them and keep them off our streets.
You on the other hand have no idea what you are slebbering about

Quote "Your attitude to this subject is borne of ignorance; reaction and laziness, it’s the easy answer for people like you every time and it doesn’t work."

Ignorance - I can assure you I had a very stable and valued upbringing including going to a very good primary and high school.
I have worked with the vunerable elderly and loved the stories from our real heros who fought for our country, wonder how they would feel now seeing the state of our country with our own bloody citizens. I am now a mum to 2 beautifully handsome and intellengent sons so ignorance I think not.

reaction - maybe I dont for one second think I am not above feeling some vegence for them absolutely once you have been closely connected to someone who has been a victim of crime it is only natural to feel strongly that justice is served.

I am not over religious but I do believe what was wrote in the bible and eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth.
Capital punishment - if.... found without any shadow of a doubt that they did kill someone then yes part of me agrees they should pay with their life but the motherly side of me says that would in effect only hurt the criminals parents and siblings etc.

I am far from Lazy and do take a valid interest in many things but I do feel very passionate about correcting our justice system and trying to find a system which works.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Karian) 06/05/10
Well what a big hit you are for yourself aren’t you? If you are such a supermum you ought to consider teaching your children that “self praise is no praise at all”

“Quote "Your attitude to this subject is borne of ignorance; reaction and laziness, it’s the easy answer for people like you every time and it doesn’t work."
You might want to note that what is said here refers only to Capital Punishment.

I consider every supporter of the death penalty to be an ignorant sadistic barbarian and that includes you; I pity your children.

I can;t begin to imagine what kind of adults would be produced by a mother who actively wants to hang, shoot and gas people.

Karian said...

Excuse me!!! but when did I claim to be "supermum" I said I was a mum to 2 handsome, intellengent sons, I am not perfect and my sons dont need self praise cause I praise they continually so they grow up confident with self belief.

My children dont need your pity, they are needing people around them who are fighting for their country to be safe and not having fear of being jumped or mugged for walking down their own streets.

Hang, shoot or gas??? sorry but they are your words not mine.
If it was legal it would be injection no complications or drawn out process.

if a dog wounds or attacks someone they are sent to death so why not another human????

I can be rest assured my children will be valued and respected members of the community and will be willing to stand up for their own rights and the rights of the minorities.
My parents brought me up to believe in and eye for an eye and there is nothing wrong with my life, I have never had any involvement with being on the wrong side of the law & both my siblings can also say the same so something my parents taught us obviously stuck, and as for my children they will be the same.

so please if you are going to make accustions and assumptions insure your facts are correct firstly..

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Karian) 18/05/10
“If it was legal it would be injection no complications or drawn out process”

How very civilised of you.

You are quite prepared to take another person’s life by lethal injection. Anyone including your unfortunate sons that you have any influence over deserves sympathy; you are a monster.

Karian said...

Monster... no just someone who stands up for their beliefs.
If..... and I very much doubt my sons are capable of murdering anyone but if... they did take the life of someone else, Although I would be destraught at losing my son at least it would be quick and painless for them.
And their victims family would know they couldnt hurt anyone else.
I wouldnt want my children ever to be hurt or to hurt others but if they did yes I would support them while justice was served.

So as a final say on this matter as we both have different views.

My sons dont need your sympathy they have 2 loving parents and 2 loving grandparents and also a larger number or extended family to support them and keep them on the right road.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Karian) 16:48
Your sons and anyone else who comes into contact with you are entitled to my pity; you are not equipped to keep anyone “on the right road” I can say this with certainty because I know that killing is wrong.