Was there ever a more devastating description of the sheer mind numbing stupidity of nationalism; than today’s spat between the SPCA and the RSPCA; On national broadcasts no less; it would appear that the money collected by the RSPCA in Scotland is not spent in Scotland, only the money collected by the SPCA is spent in Scotland, people we hear, are appalled, some people I say are appalling, some people are an embarrassment to the human race.
If you donate to an animal charity do you really want to make sure that it only goes to sick Scottish animals? honestly! What about an animal born in England and living in Scotland, does an Irish Terrier get treated, an English Setter, a Welsh Corgi, we need to be told, these damned English animals are stealing “oor Scotch poonds” if a sea creature or bird is treated is there any way we can make sure that it doesn't fly or swim away and stays in Scotland.
Perhaps the parochial, nationalist thinkers who are exercised by such c**p could expand on this; do they want to make sure that donations to e.g. the cash for kids doesn’t go to English kids or Welsh kids, why would they want to donate to e.g. Great Ormond St. Children’s Hospital when we have got a perfectly good supply of sick Scottish weans here of our own? How about cancer charities, help the aged, guide dogs for the blind? should we not be checking that money for guide dogs goes to blind Scottish people’s dogs.
This is a perfect example of how nationalists think and where nationalism leads; it is definitely as Albert Einstein said, nationalism - “an infantile disease, the measles of the planet earth”
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72 comments:
This is one area that makes me cringe every time I see or hear it.
Throughout the year many good and decent people give up their time and energies to raise money for many good causes. Often there is an advertisement highlighting the charity or cause which sometimes ends with something like "all the money raised in Scotland stays in Scotland"
Parochial drivel.
Imagine a campaign for blood donation saying "all the blood from white folk stays with white folk".
I feel if you want to give something to charity or a deserving organisation it should be that. A gift and a gift without condition.
Afraid I agree with the people on that Paisly Expressions site. You really don't have a clue do you.
This has nothing to do with nationalism, I am not a nationalist but agree 100% with the sentiments of the Scottish SPCA. It is to do with finate resources. The SSPCA do not look for money in England. The RSPCA do not need to look for money in Scotland, they have ten times the population in England so every penny they take away from the SSPCA makes it harder for them to look after the animals up here. What a sad excuse for a councillor you are Mr Kelly
Here's the flaw: the RSPCA gets money UK-wide, but only works in England & Wales. The SSPCA does the job in Scotland but has to compete with the RSPCA for attention and public donations.
So your charity money helps needy animals in England and Wales and that's OK, but it doesn't do anything for the pets on your doorstep and won't do while everyone is giving money to the RSPCA and not the SSPCA.
But hey, if the price of fending off the evils of nationalism is a couple of dead dogs in Paisley, it must be worth it.
You're no better than the Soviets who shot a dog into space for no reason other than to show off: you're willing to see animals die for the sake of the Union.
Sicko.
(Oakwood) 03/02/09
Absolutely.
(Anonymous) 03/02/09
You are exactly the kind of person who makes fellow Scots. cringe; people like you are responsible for the image that many have of Scotland as a dark, mean, backward country.
I know about the blog you refer to, it’s written by a foul mouthed anonymous clown for anonymous clowns like you.
A very misleading post.
There are 2 seperate charities with similar remits, working in different regions.
The SSPCA have had an ongoing succession of talks requesting that the RSPCA clarify that they work exclusively in England and Wales and that bequests made out to 'RSPCA-Scotland' should be passed to the SSPCA. After all, why would you go to the bother of specifiying the Scotland part in a will, if your intention was not to benefit the local charity.
In my opinion, the RSPCA have refused to accede to this request because they benefit from the obscurity, to the detriment of the terrific work carried out by the SSPCA.
The frustration of the SSPCA is understandable.
(St. Francis) 03/02/09
You are a perfect illustration of the utterly banal pointless backward stupidity of nationalism, anyone who is likely to donate to a charity but will only do so if the money goes to Scottish recipients is in need of some serious help.
As I said it’s an infantile disease.
So, all those animals which were sent into space; dogs, cats, rats,monkeys etc. were all sent to show off! you are a belter aren't you.
If I donate to an animal charity I’m doing so to help sick or injured animals; likewise to human charities; it has never occurred to me to be concerned about where that animal or person who needs help is located; I really don’t care and anyone who thinks like that is truly pathetic.
(Jim) 13:26
The idea of donating to a charity and specifying that it must go to Scotland or any other country is bizarre to me, what you are actually saying is I want to help but I prefer to help Scots. animals or for that matter Scots. people before English/Welsh/Irish/German/Greek animals or people.
It is completely senseless and makes you look bitter and extreme, it’s an alien concept to me and IMO makes Scots. look backward and parochial, oh the cringe, the cringe.
Why are 2 animal charities necessary anyway, why not one big British one, might it be personal empire building?
Thanks for your reply, and so sorry to see the poverty in the other responses that you've received.
The 2 charities have evolved from entirely different circumstances and through that evolution and the differences in Scottish and English law have come to the current state, whereby the SSPCA operate uniquely in Scotland, whilst the RSPCA do so uniquely in England and Wales. Through that evolution both charities have developed their own politics. I take your point about one big British charity, but if we're to go to the 'ideal world scenario, then there would be no need for either charity.
I don't think it's an entirely unnatural thing that people should want to assist a more local charity.
I guess the other way to look at this issue though would be that if you wanted to donate money simply to an animal welfare charity, would you be happy that this money would explicitly not be used in Scotland? Why is the SSPCA position 'backwards and parochial', but the RSPCA not?
The SSPCA are not suggesting that people should not donate to the RSPCA, they are simply highlighting that a confusion exists, which benefits the RSPCA to their own detriment.
The key point for me is that a bequest made out to 'RSPCA-Scotland', clearly indicates the wish that the money is for Scottish animal welfare. Whether you agree with the sentiment or not, it is clear what the intention of the bequest is.
You really do talk a lot of guff councillor. So this makes Scotland look parochial and backward does it, as backward and parochial as every other country in the world then. We have a national charity that looks after the animals in our country just like every other country, people in this country do not realise this and give to the RSPCA by mistake. Thus it is the animals in Scotland who lose out because the SSPCA do not have enough money to help.
As to your rubbish about the need for two charities - Why are three parliaments to run Scotland neccessary surely one would suffice? Why do we need councillors, MSP's, MP's and MEP's all who are doing very little surely a cull of these is needed.
"Why are 2 animal charities necessary anyway, why not one big British one, might it be personal empire building?"
a perfect example of British Nationalism from the great anti nationalist Terry Kelly.
Why not a great European one or a world one? Unionists always stop at the border, the British one that is, Thereby destroying their own argument at a stroke. Its called being a British Nationalist.
(the broken down barman) 14:21
Please don’t put yourself to any more trouble researching on my part; you are embarrassing yourself; the post referred to clearly shows you to be a bigot but.
Let me give you a word of advice. When you divert an argument into the jungle of semantics you have lost.
Legally I don't think the RSPCA, SSPCA (and, come to that USPCA) can merge because of the different legal systems in Scotland, England-Cymru, and Ulster.
I would guess some PR guru thought all this was a good way of making the distinction "news".
I'm fairly sure some people genuinely are confused about this, but in our defence they only have to take a cursory look at the map on our website (Scotland isn't there and if you ask for your local branch and enter a Scottish town it suggests you probably don't live in the RSPCA's area of activity).
Judging purely by accent we do help substantial numbers of animals whose owners originated beyond Hadrian's wall.
(Jim) 14:23
“I don't think it's an entirely unnatural thing that people should want to assist a more local charity”
I don’t think that it’s unnatural for people to assist a charity end of.
I can’t imagine someone donating to charity with the proviso that it must be Scottish, that is a deplorable way to think.
I have never in my life asked that a donation should be kept in Scotland, it’s not something that would occur to me; consider; as I asked others where this attitude leads.
If you insist on this caveat you must ask yourself why a Scottish sick animal or child is more deserving than anywhere else, anywhere else in the world for that matter.
i do not think that semantics to be a jungle. in politics, particularly, you have to use the correct words to make sure you are not misunderstood. my questioning of whether i had made bigoted remarks and, again, your answering with nothing but hyperbole leads me to the conclusion that you dont know what yer on aboot!!! yeah i did make a joke at the expense of paisly and its over achieving football team, but it hardly consternates the vicious and unwarranted personal insults, which seem to characterise your views towards anyone with a different view from you! i put it to you, councillor that you may have a slice of bigot running through you.
yours andy c
the broken down barman x x x
(Anonymous) 15:11
“people in this country do not realise this and give to the RSPCA by mistake”
How do you know this?
“Why are three parliaments to run Scotland neccessary surely one would suffice? Why do we need councillors, MSP's, MP's and MEP's”
I’m right with you; I’m all in favour of what works; in these days of space age communications, e.g. groups of people can converse with each other while seeing each other from all over the world, that’s a good argument for one big animal charity, I’m glad you don’t have a closed mind.
“all who are doing very little”
A silly juvenile remark.
“this makes Scotland look parochial and backward does it”
Anyone who is prepared to donate to charity with such conditions is exactly that “parochial and backward” it’s an affliction common to nationalists everywhere.
(Anonymous) 15:57
“Why not a great European one or a world one?”
Why not indeed; I’m in favour of any improvement in anything if it can work; I couldn’t care less who it’s by or where someone comes from, these are concerns which exercise only stunted, backward, people - nationalists in fact.
I know your kind find it difficult to grasp but; it really is true, I feel no Different towards a German, a Chinaman, an Englishman or anyone else including a Scotsman, where someone was born is meaningless, it makes absolutely no difference to the kind of person you are, I find those who think that it does pathetic and; lacking in self esteem.
AS that great Scottish patriot and philosopher Billy Connolly once said about Scottish Nationalism "if where you wee born is the best thing that you have going for you, you are in deep s**t".
eh excuse me terry.....
your reply anon earlier??
the answer did not make me cringe. i thought it quite reasonable. i may not have agreed with it as a whole.
i was wondering who gave you the right to speak for us scots?? i certainly didnt.
does it make you mean and backward to want to give your money to one charity or another??
if people want to give their money to help the survival of animals that are being cared for in scotland, so be it. i would prefer it myself. the main point is though, there are sick, abandoned and helpless animals in scotland england wales etc and we need to make sure that there are sufficient funds for both societies.
as to where our charitable donations are distributed- i think transparency is really important in the division of the funds. if, for example,a charity claims to be collecting for the starving in the sudan, but was giving to another source, this would cause outrage. for a charity to be named as british and does not include scotland is kind of misleading. surely you must agree with that
(Anonymous) 03/02/09
You are exactly the kind of person who makes fellow Scots. cringe; people like you are responsible for the image that many have of Scotland as a dark, mean, backward country.
I know about the blog you refer to, it’s written by a foul mouthed anonymous clown for anonymous clowns like you.
Councillor Kelly,
May I add my comment to you site and first of all apologise for not listening to your correctly stated comments about the Nats and their plans for Scotland.
It's all coming horribly true, not we can all see the true face of Nationalism, separate monies for Scotland now for England, will this now include Blood, other charities, TV prodcasting, the clothes we buy the food we eat.
I think the people of this proud nation had better wake up and stop looking at the Spiv Salmond as if he is the Messiah, coming to deliver us from evil.
He is not, please, please wake up Scotland, first once Cllr Kelly warned you first about this, he was dismissed by the many and now look, it's all about to kick off.
Keep your home fires burning Councillor.
May I suggest a little reading:
http://www.scottishspca.org/news/142_rspca-challenged-to-stop-stealing
This has nothing to do with nationalism.
Over 70% of Scots mistakenly believe that the RSPCA operate in Scotland.
The SSPCA are not asking that people don't donate to the RSPCA, but rather that they are at least made aware that the SSPCA is Scotland's animal welfare charity.
I am grateful that your forum provides a platform to highlight the issue but am somewhat bemused by your view that it's OK for the RSPCA to ambiguously take money from Scotland, to the detriment of it's Scottish counterpart, when it clearly does not operate within Scotland.
How would your local council tax payers feel about funding a new Swimming pool for Newcastle out of the Renfrewshire leisure budget?
Could you look them in the eye and tell them that they're being twisted nationalists who should be comforted that someone will benefit from their contributions?
I hope not!
OK, so can you square your opinions with your great leader Gordon who wants "Britsh jobs for British workers".
oor tel..
sometime earlier..............
"AS that great Scottish patriot and philosopher Billy Connolly once said.."
billy connolly, a philosopher???? i dont think so, he is a comedian. he tells funny stories and exaggerates them!!!!
billy connolly, great scottish patriot??? he doesn't even live in this country and your quote "if where you wee born is the best thing that you have going for you, you are in deep s**t" seems less than patriotic whatever country your from, so i dont quite understand your point there.
i just adore the way that anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint is spoken to as "your kind" etc. its very grown up. bet your teacher must be so proud.
as i dragged my knuckles up to the keyboard i realized how pathetic you really are. you are so judgmental and prejudiced. you seem to be a fairly intelligent guy, but you just need to take the blinkers off.
nobody is always right, not even me!!! take some time to think before you react and you might be ok.
I don't see anything wrong with local or national charities per se though I have no objection to international charities either and have donated and helped raise money for all kinds. For example when I did the womens 10k last year I donated the money raised to Yorkhill, not because I think children in Glasgow are better or more important then children from elsewhere but because I wanted to do something to thank the staff who treated my nephew, similarly I donated to the Gaza appeal not because people there are more deserving but because I felt there was a need for aid there.
In terms of the SPCA/RSPCA row, it would indeed be better to have one big UK wide charity but until we do I think it's fair for the SPCA to be concerned at the RSPCA getting a substantial share of donations in an area that they do not operate in. The RSPCA are better known and resourced than the SPCA and it would be a crying shame if this led to a situation where one charity is left struggling as a result. Then again the 'Royal' in RSPCA has always made me bristle.
I'd always mistakenly thought the SPCA were just a regional branch of the RSPCA and that the money was divvied up accordingly. As it isn't any future donations I make will be split between the two. Though personally the PDSA usually get my donations.
As I spent the first 19 year of my life in England I am no Scottish Nationalist, so please don't insult me.
"I can’t imagine someone donating to charity with the proviso that it must be Scottish, that is a deplorable way to think." In what way? There is a link on your site to Medical Aid for Palestinians. Presumaby you donate money with the proviso that the recipients are Palestinians and not, say, Israelis. People have a choice, that is the point of charity.
(cambstreasurer) 04/02/09
Thank you for your comments, I find the idea that some people would donate to charity and discriminate at the same time depressing; that is what comes of nationalist thinking i.e. a sick Scotttish dog is more deserving than a sick non Scottish dog, they are embarrassing.
(the broken down barman) 04/02/09
“yeah i did make a joke at the expense of paisley”
Not a joke; a vicious bigoted insult.
Semantics is useful when people do not understand each other; not the case with you and me.
(the broken down barman) 04/02/09
I do not claim to speak for anyone; I simply state my opinion.
The idea of donating to a charity and then discriminating against possible recipients is anathema to me; lets be clear what you are saying; you want your donation spent on Scots. whether an animal or for that matter a person is Scottish determines who gets treated even with identical symptoms.
This is indeed typical nationalist thinking and I’m appalled by it but happy to highlight it.
(Anonymous) 04/02/09
There are people out there who go by the slogan “it might be rubbish but; at least it’s good old Scottish rubbish”
(Jim) 04/02/09
“This has nothing to do with nationalism” This has everything to do with how nationalists think, the SNP have raised it in Westminster today.
The Renfrewshire Leisure Budget is not a charity.
We are talking here about people donating to charity and discriminating against recipients because they are not Scots. even if it’s dogs etc. what next ; blood donations?
A charitable donation should have no caveats.
(Anonymous) 04/02/09
Gordon Brown said this at the end of a speech which was about the Govt. providing proper training to entitle British Workers to pursue British jobs; not to the exclusion of anyone; but, I’m sure you won’t let that truth get in the way of your lies.
(the broken down barman) 05/02/09
If I say Billy Connolly is a philosopher and patriot then he is. That’s my opinion right?
"if where you were born is the best thing that you have going for you, you are in deep s**t"
Let me make allowances for you; where you are born is an accident of birth it means nothing as far as your character, your nature, your intelligence or anything else is concerned. Nationalists think otherwise; “wha’s like us” kind of thing, any clearer?
Was your analysis of me meant to be ironic or were you serious?
Reading your other comments, I can't believe that you are trying to twist this into some form of nationalist argument.
The SSPCA point is that many people giving to the RSPCA believe they are giving to a UK wide charity. The RSPCA is not, but benefits from this misconception. This is to the detriment of animal welfare in Scotland. That is an unfair situation, which needs addressed.
As for your nonsense about caveats:
Is it abnormal that charity aid organisation should have a Gaza appeal? Am I wrong to give money to this particular charity appeal but not another?
(Anonymous) 08:48
I have no intention of insulting you and calling you a nationalist would indeed be a grave insult; I don’t take issue with what you have said I am pointing out that giving to a charity is OK by me; a nominated cause is fine as well I have also done that.
The idea however that people would make a donation and then discriminate against possible recipients because they are not Scottish is repulsive and that is what we are now getting because of this nonsense.
I don’t care a toss where the beneficiary of a donation lives, I find that really quite sinister.
(Anonymous) 12:01
Medical Aid for Palestine is a response to a specific situation and does not exclude anyone injured there, it just happens to be predominantly Palestinians.
“People have a choice, that is the point of charity”
Absolutely, and I find it distasteful that some people would exclude people or animals in need because they are not Scottish; which is what some people are now doing.
(Jim) 14:01
I don’t enquire as to which part of the country my donation is going to I donate to a cause, it’s really that simple, we now have people saying that they will no longer donate to the RSPCA this is indeed the introverted backward mindset of nationalism.
You can give to anyone you want to it’s your choice but, we are talking now about refusing to give because it’s not Scottish, I can’t grasp that mentality.
It's only you that's talking about not giving because it's not Scottish. Clearly people have been under the impression that the RSPCA did operate in Scotland.
Do you agree or disagree that the RSPCA have benefitted from the ambiguity?
Do you agree or disagree that the RSPCA taking money which was probably intended for it's Scottish counterpart is to the detriment of Scottish animal welfare?
Do you think that the RSPCA should have acceeded to requests from the SSPCA to clarify the boudaries of each others operation?
Do you think that the intention of the last wishes of someone should be respected?
dear terry
you replied to one of my comments by saying:
"I do not claim to speak for anyone; I simply state my opinion." to your previous statement
"You are exactly the kind of person who makes fellow Scots. cringe;"
did you mean ... kind of person who makes me cringe"? because that would have been you stating your opinion, not what you replied to me!!!
"The idea of donating to a charity and then discriminating against possible recipients is anathema to me;"
is this not what the rspca do?? they dont spend money in scotland, so why should i donate to a charity that discriminates. glad you pointed this out to me.
"lets be clear what you are saying; you want your donation spent on Scots."
i think, if you would care to re read my comment, you will find that i said i would prefer the money to go to the scottish charity. yes i would, if thats who i want to give my donation to. i also stated that i think it important to make sure that both societies had sufficient fund for their needs.
"If I say Billy Connolly is a philosopher and patriot then he is. That’s my opinion right?"
this is not opinion, it is stated as a fact.
if it was your opinion you would have put something like " in my opinion".
why you would idolise a patriot is beyond me. isnt patriotism something to do with were you were born?? does it not mean a great love of the country of your birth?
"Let me make allowances for you; where you are born is an accident of birth it means nothing as far as your character, your nature, your intelligence or anything else is concerned. Nationalists think otherwise; “wha’s like us” kind of thing, any clearer?"
yet you claim billy connolly to be a patriot and put on a pedestal.
some confusion need cleared up.
p.s. still dont understand how you can call him a patriot. he left this country as soon has he got the chance. who next, connery, lulu???
(Jim) 14:44
1/ It’s not only me, read the papers check what the SNP did today in Westminster today; the lady on TV last night stating that she would no longer donate to the RSPCA.
2/ I have no idea but; I thought that I had made my position clear, a sick animal is a sick animal; I genuinely don’t care where it is, I find that a strange concept.
3/ Not only do I not agree; as I have said now god knows how many times I don’t care where the money goes as long as it helps these sick animals.
4/ If you read the other comments here you will find one from someone involved with the RSPCA which clearly points out that they have always done just that.
5/ No I don’t actually, that would depend on what the wishes were. What if they wanted some awful deed done or money donated to some unsavoury group?
(the broken down barman) 16:57
"You are exactly the kind of person who makes fellow Scots. cringe;"
Would it be easier for you to follow if I inserted the words “in my opinion” before any statement; tell you what you can assume that’s what I mean when I say something; does this help?
Neither the RSPCA nor the SSPCA discriminates against anyone it’s people like you who advocate discrimination.
You want your donation to go to the SSPCA rather than the RSPCA can you tell us why, are Scottish cats and dogs more deserving; are our own true blooded Scottish cats and dogs just nicer for being Scottish?
(the broken down barman) 17:05
O.K. I give up; you clearly don’t do irony or satire.
I am as entitled as anyone else to choose my own heroes and folk to look up to and Connolly is one of them; I rate him alongside those other great imaginary Scottish characters; Oor Wullie, Wee Wullie Wallace, Rob Roy, Wee Wullie Winkie, Wild Young Dirkie and Nessie.
Are you saying all charitable funds raised and spent within Scotland only go to Scottish recipients?
A glance along my street reveals people from many backgrounds. In my block of flats alone I can count an African, an Englishwoman and two Indians amongst my neighbours. Surely if they needed it, they would benefit equally from any charity offered in Scotland.
If this was truly xenophobic the charity concerned would be saying that they will only assist animals owned by Scots.
I don't know why the RSPCA are so resistant to calling themselves RSPCA England and Wales when collecting in Scotland, I can't see it affecting their donations much.
could you please explain how people giving their money to the rspca, which is then spent in england and wales, any better than giving money to the sspca, to be spent in scotland. its a no win situation. if i give my money to one i am leaving the other short on funds.
if you could only make one donation who would it be to??
i clearly dont do irony or satire????
well neither do you! point out one bit of irony and one bit of satire from any post or comment on this page please. i can see plenty of low grade sarcasm and plenty of narrow minded and childish humour, but no irony or satire.
"Would it be easier for you to follow if I inserted the words “in my opinion” before any statement; tell you what you can assume that’s what I mean when I say something; does this help?"
no not really. instead of making broad sweeping statements designed to prove your point, which are, lets face it, only based on your very narrow opinion, you could try finding out what opinion is.
i am begining to find it hard to believe that you are actually an elected figure. you are a representative of which every ward you represent. you are meant to have an open mind and have been elected to office to represent everyone in your ward.
your ego is astounding. did you get bullied at school? i think you should get off yer soap box and think about your argument. it is so nonsensical that i finf it hard to follow.
if i donated money to build a statue of robert burns i would me highly pissed off if a statue of robert the bruce was unveiled.
so its wrong to donate to the sspca, which operates in scotland only, as this is nationalistic and therefore parchial and backward. it is correct to donate to the rspca, which operates only in england and wales, because....???
im stuck. can you finish the sentence for me.
so when we all start to donate to the rspca the ill and mistreated animals in scotland will be cared for by ....???
can you finish that one as well please. sorry im just a bigoted nationalist with no brain who cannot think for himself. i need your help o great thinker.
i dont think you understand what you are talking about. if you can be this out of depth, what is basically a case of misrepresentation, then id hate to see what you were like in a real political situition.
why not leave it up to big uncle alex and the rest of the big boys to sort out. you get back to making sure the community centre is made nice for the bingo at the weekend eh.
'If I say Billy Connolly is a philosopher and patriot then he is.'
Yes but you must acknowledge that he is a pretty parochial phenomenon. I can hardly understand a word he says and whilst I'm sure in the context of Scottish comedy he's very funny, he carries no resonance outside his home country. Placed in the context of British comedy he's a nobody. He doesn't even come near any of the great English stand up comedians, comedy writers or actors.
In world terms he's beyond failure despite relocating to L.A he never made his mark on Hollywood where he was painfully outclassed by comedians who can speak to the world not just their own little bit of it.
As a socialist I commend his stance against nationalism but deplore his crawling to the crown and highland lord of the manner stuff.
Cllr I enjoy your blog but I wish you'd raise the central objection to Scottish nationalism beceause it's so often overlooked. I thought you were coming close to it in an earlier post. An independant Scotland would be a Christian protestant theocracy and pogroms against catholics in particular the catholic Irish would soon follow. Look how they tie up the swings on the sabbath and routinely discriminate against catholic school leavers. The imperialist war in Northern Ireland will have nothing on what the Scots will do if let off the leash.
Let's face it even if their was some merit to Scottish Nationalism as a movement, Scotland is nowhere near talented or mature enough to play any significant role in the modern world.
There is something oppressive about Scottish culture. Look at their enthusiastic role in slavery, slaughtering the native Americans, Australians and New Zealanders. Yes the English upper classes embraced the empire but it was built by working class scots who should have joined their radical English counterparts in refusing to participate.
I don't dislike Scottish people and some of my friends are Scottish but it would have been better if referring to Scotland as North Britain had caught on -it would have at least removed the tartan caner from the UK.
You show every sign of being ready to join the human race but how can your countryman be persuaded to follow.
ok, I can see that you won't budge from your anti-nationalist agenda.
We are both in agreement that a sick animal is a sick animal and deserving of treatment.
The crux of this story is that the RSPCA have continued to benefit from a common misconception. I read what 'cambstreasurer' had to say on the matter - this line
"I'm fairly sure some people genuinely are confused about this," confirms the ambiguity. The defence of a 'cursory glance' at a web site is not enough, as the SSPCA have continually pointed out.
So, thankyou for the opportunity to air the matter further. I can see that we agree in principle, but that you are stuck defending some anti-nationalist stance, which makes it OK for the RSPCA to accept donations and bequests from Scotland but to pass requests for help from Scotland onto the SSPCA, without having to share the money.
How Scots wishing to help a Scottish charity makes us backwards and parochial is simply beyond me.
(Anonymous) 05/02/09
You seem to have got what I was saying a bit mixed up but I will make two comments.
On the question of xenophobia; I have no doubt whatsoever that the SSPA or for that matter the RSPCA would be interested in the origin of any injured animal brought to them, they would simply treat the injury. Some Scottish people however are now saying that they will not donate to the RSPCA because of this nonsense being stirred up; the SNP have predictably jumped on it with glee, that is xenophobic nationalism at it’s worst.
As far as the names of these organisations are concerned; I find it bewildering and disappointing that some people find it necessary to have a SSCA when it seems obvious that an all UK society would be better, why do they insist on that?
(the broken down barman) 05/02/09
“is donating money to rspca, which is then spent in england and wales, any better than giving money to the sspca, to be spent in Scotland”
“if you could only make one donation who would it be to??”
I would only donate to either of them if it was a street can collection and I wouldn’t be likely to analyse that but; you have unwittingly given me pause for thought.
If I was driven by a desire to help injured animals and determined to do my very best to help I would have to donate to the RSPCA.
Being bigger, richer, better equipped, better staffed and helping greater numbers of injured and sick animals, would make that IMO the right thing to do; whether that is in England or Scotland is irrelevant.
The rest of your overlong diatribe is gibberish.
(the broken down barman) 05/02/09
“im just a bigoted nationalist with no brain who cannot think for himself”
A good description of someone who would donate to a charity because it is Scottish, not because of what it does.
Again you write a load of biased gibberish; did you write this from the pub?
(jules) 06/02/09
It saddens me to have to explain; I used Connolly’s brilliant quote about nationalism but I didn’t actually mean he was a great philosopher or patriot; that was just to grab attention.
I have some sympathy with some of your comments but;
"You show every sign of being ready to join the human race but how can your countryman be persuaded to follow”
Which one of my countrymen do you mean? A bit more diligence is required if you are going to act superior.
(Jim) 08:53
“We are both in agreement that a sick animal is a sick animal and deserving of treatment”
Absolutely but; specifying that the donation goes to only Scottish sick animals makes me despair.
“How Scots wishing to help a Scottish charity makes us backwards and parochial is simply beyond me”
It doesn’t but; donating to any charity is a good thing, only giving to Scottish causes is backward and parochial IMO.
It is the very reason that the disease of nationalism exists; it leads to “my country right or wrong” or “a c****y Scots. product is preferable to a good English one” we need to lift our heads, this attitude is embarrassing.
Some incredible posting going on in this thread, but my final one on the matter, which I hope reaches the heart of my concerns at your original blog and is perhaps highlighted by your line:
"Absolutely but; specifying that the donation goes to only Scottish sick animals makes me despair."
The donation does not specify that it only goes to Scottish sick animals, it specifies that it goes to the charity operating in Scotland. A very big difference.
You are finding offence where none exists.
gibberish!!!! sorry i will try and keep my world count down for you. i understand you must have had a busy day despising anyone with a different opinion from you. your narrow mind forces you to see only what you want to see.
"If I was driven by a desire to help injured animals and determined to do my very best to help I would have to donate to the RSPCA.
Being bigger, richer, better equipped, better staffed and helping greater numbers of injured and sick animals, would make that IMO the right thing to do; whether that is in England or Scotland is irrelevant."
is this new labour thinking??? bigger and richer equals better???
so lets all let animals in one part of the country suffer. it doesnt matter that it is in scotland, these animals are now going to suffer because you think that might is right
You are a fake councillor, you claim to be a socialist but you are happy to be in the most right-wing party in Britain. You claim to be against sectarianism and yet you support a certain football team because you are a bigot, not because it is your local team. You were called "Paisley's very own village idiot" in yesterday's Scotsman online what a very apt title indeed.
(Jim) 14:19
I’m trying to highlight that I would donate to an animal charity without bothering to ask where it was located; I regard that as the natural thing to do.
“The donation does not specify that it only goes to Scottish sick animals”
This might well be the case with you which is to your credit but, we are now seeing people who are saying that they will not donate if the money does not go to Scotland, the SNP at Westminster have put down a motion saying that Scottish people are donating money with the intention of it only going to Scotland and they are being cheated, which is a lie but it gives them a way to exploit this.
(the broken down barman) 14:54
I’m beginning to get the impression that you don’t like me; and I’m really hurt; I have to sustain myself with the thought that I have made an enemy of an SNP strategist, possibly one of their big thinkers.
“is this new labour thinking??? bigger and richer equals better???”
In pursuit of a worthy goal – yes it is. I know I will have to explain that since it’s you I’m dealing with.
Imagine (God forbid) you have a seriously ill child would you want the child treated at your friendly wee cottage hospital or would you move heaven and earth to get your child to the biggest, best equipped, best staffed hospital you can find?
On the other hand taking a gun away from a murderer and giving him/her; a bigger, better more expensive, more efficient gun would be a case of “bigger and richer” not being better right?
What do you think? Do you think? Take your time; try to keep it short please.
(Anonymous) 19:35
“you claim to be a socialist”
That’s because I am.
“you are happy to be in the most right-wing party in Britain”
Labour is not a right wing party, try telling that to Tony Benn, Ken Livingstone, Michael Foot and many others.
“you support a certain football team because you are a bigot”
I’m not sectarian and I’m not a bigot, I’ve been subjected to sectarianism and bigotry before and I wouldn’t inflict that on anyone.
I assume that you are right that I have been insulted by a Scotsman reader and told about it by another Scotsman reader but; hold on; did you not just describe me as right wing?
Best to stay an anonymous Scotsman reader eh?
Well, Jim and Broken Down Barman and anonymous and others, you now know what Mr. Kelly is like!
Well done the SSPCA for their campaign!
I will keep giving my monthly donation to them!
Here is a wee test Terry, try 'phoning the RSPCA when you have a wild animal in distress in your garden, be it a bird, a fox or whatever. You will get no help from them.
Then again I suppose you don't care too much do you?
you said
"Imagine (God forbid) you have a seriously ill child would you want the child treated at your friendly wee cottage hospital or would you move heaven and earth to get your child to the biggest, best equipped, best staffed hospital you can find?"
is this not taking the argument to the extreme? yes of course i would want a seriously ill child to have the best treatment available. but would you want our child to travel to york hill or great ormond street every time he/she had a virus or a cold?? treatment needs to be available in every region, in every area, to everyone. what would you say if our national insurance payments went to fund only english and welsh hospitals?? yeah they could give the best treatment, but someone from scotland would have to travel miles to get treatmant.
you keep claiming that i support the snp. i want to state this for the record that i do not support the snp, the bnp, new labour old labour, tory party or liberal. i have an open mind. i can think for myself.
have you looked at my blog??
i dont have the answers to anything and dont try to pretend i do but i do have an opinion.
you have a very arrogant streak, in my opinion, which distracts you from your duty and leads you to personal attacks and mud throwing.
your better than that.
i respect people who stand up for what they believe in, whether it is the same opinion as mine or not. in that i do respect you but i feel you are very petty and infantile in the way you go about things. there is no need for this. reading your previous posts i gained a measure of respect for you and your views. i feel that you just need to listen and think about what other people are saying before you formulate an opinion.
you need to channel your anger in the right way.
im sorry if this comment is a bit convoluted, but thought i would give you some morning reading
yours sincerely
andy c
(the broken down barman) 07/02/09
“treatment needs to be available in every region”
I don’t disagree but that is not what you asked me you asked me to pick between the two and I did and gave my reason why.
“ I’m not SNP”
Feb. 5Th. 09 “why not leave it up to big uncle alex and the rest of the big boys to sort out” (the broken down barman)
“what would you say if our national insurance payments went to fund only english and welsh hospitals??”
I would say you are not thinking straight; National Insurance Payments are not charitable donations.
“you have a very arrogant streak, in my opinion, which distracts you from your duty and leads you to personal attacks and mud throwing.
your better than that”
So; you actually do, do irony / satire then.
(Anonymous) 06/02/09
You don’t seem to have addressed any of the points I made; why is that?
sorry a bit confused ( again) can you point out the irony/satire???
(the broken down barman) 08/02/09
“sorry a bit confused ( again) can you point out the irony/satire???”
The following is you describing me – “you have a very arrogant streak, in my opinion, which distracts you from your duty and leads you to personal attacks and mud throwing.
your better than that”
And – “i respect people who stand up for what they believe in, whether it is the same opinion as mine or not”
And – “i feel you are very petty and infantile in the way you go about things. there is no need for this”
And - “i feel that you just need to listen and think about what other people are saying before you formulate an opinion, you need to channel your anger in the right way”
If it’s not irony it’s stupidity.
(the broken down barman) 08/02/09
When an arrogant, infantile mud thrower accuses someone of being an arrogant, infantile mud thrower; he is ; IMO either being ironic or stupid, you choose.
why is it stupidity if it is not irony??
(the broken down barman) 12:53
Anyone writing such stuff without attempting irony would be IMO stupid, perhaps now that you have been made to look a bit foolish you are lying to yourself; if you really don’t see the irony in your comments, I’m afraid that’s pretty dumb.
I seem to be missing something here. My understanding is that the SSPCA and RSPCa are arguing over the RSPCA's refusla to quit fundraising. Now, I believe you have someting, Terry, when you say that donations with a proviso that the money is spent in a narrow manner, such as 'in Scotland', are parochial. However, wouldn't a donation to the RSPCA, wherever it comes from, be exactly that? The money would be spent in England and Wales only. Cambstreasurer is being a wee bit disingenuous when he or she states that some of the people being helped have Scots accents. That's making light of a serious issue, at least serious to the protagonists. My real interest lies in whether the RSPCA or the SSPCA are lying through their teeth, because at least one of them is.
(Jim Lewis) 16:22
If someone was donating to the RSPCA or SSPCA or indeed any other cause and insisting that it went only to Scotland, England or Timbuktu that would be parochial but, my point is that I personally would never think of checking such a thing; it simply would not occur to me to place such a caveat on a donation and; anyone who does IMO is exactly that parochial and stunted.
am sorry must have missed something here...
who made me look foolish??
anyway, can i just ask, if the money donated for aid, medical suplies etc in palestine was spent in germany on victims of a train crash, would this be ok??
(the broken down barman) 15:57
“who made me look foolish?? “ You did.
Your last para. Is deliberately misleading; I have argued consistently against people who would discriminate against a charity because it’s not Scottish, that is all.
Gee, you are so bitter Kelly!
I just wonder when you Labourites will start to grow up and get over the realisation that Scotland is no longer in your back pocket.
Weigh votes? You'll have to beg for votes in the next election, boyo!
(Anonymous) 03/01/10
I don’t really care much about your opinion; I will continue my involvement in politics and work for every vote.
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