Friday, August 15, 2008

THE SNP PLAY KEEPIE UP WITH THE NHS POLITICAL FOOTBALL.

Few things are as emotive as hospitals, we all need them at some time, every community wants one on it’s doorstep and everyone demands the highest standards from them.

Politicians love claiming that they have helped their local hospital in some way and most never miss a chance to swear that they will defend their local one to the bitter end, this causes a serious problem when it comes to making progress in the NHS. Difficult decisions become massive because of misleading propaganda and the tactic of using those decisions for political reasons.

Proposed changes to health provision cost Labour dearly before the last Holyrood election because of the tactics employed by the SNP who promised everybody that they would not close/transfer A&E facilities or maternity care in several locations. These promises were made without any medical knowledge or expert advice, the difference between the Labour and SNP positions was that despite a looming election Labour were prepared to take these difficult decisions because they believed it was the right thing to do based on expert advice.

The SNP by contrast took a populist line and became the ‘saviours’ of people’s local hospitals, the Americans have a very apt phrase for people who do this kind of thing, they call them “ambulance chasers” this relates to lawyers who chase ambulances with blue lights flashing so they can offer to sue someone on behalf of the patient in the ambulance. In essence the welfare of the people and the future improvement to the NHS were not as important to the SNP as the populist vote. I believe that this shows the difference between us and them and it’s a fundamental one, they put themselves first, if there is any justice they will live to regret this kind of underhand behaviour.

They are still doing this today, the news that Greenock and Vale of Leven maternity services will remain where they are allows the SNP to play the role of local health service saviours, a base lie and cruel manipulation of the public. Pregnant women are already voting with their feet by opting to use Paisley and Glasgow maternity services while the SNP celebrate their hollow and corrupt triumph. Maternity services is a good example of where facilities should be centralised, it’s an argument which lends itself to most health disciplines and like many serious problems the answer is not all that difficult.

An honest question and answer session is helpful, bare in mind that the overwhelming majority of babies are born in a planned way, pregnancies are monitored closely and dates and times all worked out and it tends to work out fine.

The question for partners is this, where would you prefer to give birth, in a small hospital which is near you or in a large one where facilities are better. This question applies to other medical treatments as well, If you or someone close to you were seriously ill where would you rather be treated, in the small local hospital or the large one with all the equipment and expert consultants etc.

I would use the local hospital for diagnosis and primary treatment and ask for a move if my condition deteriorated or it made sense to have better facilities for treatment, this is what should happen, families should be helped with travel if need be, if your child had a serious illness and you had to choose between a local hospital and have to make ambulance trips for scans and treatment at bigger hospitals or move the child to the bigger hospital what would you do ? IMO anyone who says that maternity care in Greenock and Vale of Leven is up to the standard at Paisley and Glasgow is either ignorant or in favour of the SNP’s populism to buy votes and that, is a scandal.

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have never read such rubbish.

Can you please let us know what medical qualifications you possess so that we can judge your ability to comment on this subject.

Thank you.
(Hospital Doctor 34 years experience).

Anonymous said...

I've just heard the sad news about John MacDougall. Mesothelioma is such a horrible, cruel illness -I watched my father lose his battle with it some years ago. My condolences to all in the party and of course his friends and family.

Anonymous said...

The SNP set up an INDEPENDENT panel to investigate this, chaired by Professor Angus Mackay.

Are you better qualified than him ?

Is it Professor Kelly now ???

Anonymous said...

Spelling mistakes notwithstanding, you did not write this Terry. It is too structured for you.
We do notice these things.
Isa

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 15/08/08

What qualifications do the pregnant women have who are passing these hospitals by to reach bigger better equipped ones.

Maybe you, a doctor would choose a smaller less well equipped hospital to treat your sick child, if that is so please, please, give up your anonymity to allow me to make sure that you never go near me or any of my family.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 15/08/08
I didn’t read Mackay and IMO I don’t need to, nor do the mothers who are heading for Paisley and Glasgow.

Maybe you should hiding behind the report and ask yourself the very simple straight forward question, if you had a sick child would you prefer a hospital with less facilities, less well qualified doctors etc. or one which is smaller with less well qualified doctors and less facilities ? It’s a difficult one to answer isn’t it.

Only an SNP supporter with their morale fiber would support your argument, shameful.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 15/08/08

I did write this and you have not addressed any of the points made, could you not find anything sexist ? You are pathetic.

Allan said...

You seem to have lost the plot on several fronts here.

Firstly, you and the fellow members of the political classes are beholden to us, the voters. NOT the other way round. We would rather like all of our hospitals to be kept open, AND a first class NHS. End of. It is New Labours fault for giving us the old "tough choices" shtick, because we the votes, don't buy it.

Who is running away from the argument here Mr Kelly?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Allan) 18:34

I’ve heard various versions of this garbage and it suits those who will do anything to get someone’s vote, such as lying about emotive subjects like hospitals, like the SNP.

I am not beholden to the voters and they are not beholden to me, let me try to simplify it for you, if voters tell me that they will not vote for me unless I vote for capital punishment or repatriation of immigrants or long jail terms for homosexuality I would say to them no matter how many “ you can shove your vote” and I have done so.

See if you can grasp that. Some people like you, can clearly be bought.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


Proposed changes to health provision cost Labour dearly before the last Holyrood election because of the tactics employed by the SNP who promised everybody that they would not close/transfer A&E facilities or maternity care in several locations (Labour arrogance cost Labour dearly). These promises were made without any medical knowledge or expert advice (blatant lie), the difference between the Labour and SNP positions was that despite a looming election Labour were prepared to take these difficult decisions because they believed it was the right thing to do based on expert (discredited) advice.


You are now no better than a liar. Time and again I have provided you with links to the evidence that discredited the Kerr report on centralising A&E services.

Once again I will ask you to consider the logistics of travelling from Balloch to Paisley. Never mind doing so on a day with high winds (Erskine bridge closed) or on a Sunday evening when the thousands of people who have spent their weekend anywhere between Loch Lomond and Islay are returning to Glasgow.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 18/08/08

You either do not know anything about this or it’s you who is the liar. The SNP were campaigning on slogans claiming that they would not shut any hospitals, this was before the election, before it ! they did not produce any expert evidence until after the election. They were prepared to act through populism on this, a very important issue about people’s welfare and health.

Your point about travelling from Balloch is another lie, the conditions you describe exist and are coped with just now, if someone has to travel from Balloch to Paisley in an emergency and there is heavy traffic or the closure of the bridge they have to deal with it or, maybe in your world of falsehoods that never happens.

This is the price you have to pay for supporting political liars, no matter how much you lie to yourself it won’t go away. Patients have been doing this for years, it was opportunism by the SNP, as low as you can get.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


they did not produce any expert evidence until after the election.


So, at last you acknowledge that the expert evidence which discredits the Kerr report exists. There's some progress, congratulations.


if someone has to travel from Balloch to Paisley in an emergency and there is heavy traffic or the closure of the bridge they have to deal with it


That's correct councillor, now refer yourself to the evidence of the dangers posed by longer ambulance journeys and maybe try to join the dots.

I did raise the scenario precisely because of the frequency with which it occurs, so your little barb at the end reveals more about your cognitive abilities than my 'world of falsehoods'.

Speaking of evidence though, how about your assertion that maternity services should be centralised? These mums don't seem to agree with you either.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 08:16

You seem to quite incapable of addressing the point, let me try again.

The SNP were quite happy to use the hospitals issue to score political points and buy votes, that was their sole intention, nothing and nobody was given any consideration except their political ambitions, I think that that, is serious when we are dealing with peoples health.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...

You seem to quite incapable of addressing the point, let me try again.

Ha Ha Ha! Brilliant!

If you could actually make a coherent point it might be worth addressing.

Up till now, what we do know is that the BMA are in agreement with the SNP proposals and voters have preferred the SNP plans to Labour's centralising dogma.

Your point seems to lie somewhere between carping about losing an election and slinging mud at political opponents, plus ca change!

Nick said...

Hello Terry,

Apologies for not rejoining our debate in the last thread I posted in. I had a long weekend away from the web...

I wanted to pick up Allan's point about elected representatives working for the electorate. You see, you do work for us. We pay you to do a job.

I agree, you should tell people to shove there votes if they ask you to change your position to curry favour. It's like a job interview: you tell people what you'll do, they decide whether they agree with you. If the majority do, you get the job and are responsible for doing what you said you would.

I hope we can agree on that. So, I'm going to restate my question form the last thread: if that's the basis politicians are elected on, why not have some sort of covenant holding them to their stated intentions once they're elected?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 15:22

You are not missing the point, you are avoiding it. You force me to go over it again, this is not about who is right and who is wrong about changes to health care . It’s about a quite simple example of political chicanery which shows the SNP in a very serious bad light.

Let me try this way, maybe it will help.

A conversation between Sturgeon and the ‘spiv’ Sturgeon to the ‘spiv’ “this business with Labour’s health review is an open goal for us, spread the fear about closures and promise to keep everything open if they vote for us, and the votes come to us” the ‘spiv’ “what’s being said about the labour review ? What’s our take on it “ ? Sturgeon to the ‘spiv’ “ we don’t have a take on it but we can clean up the votes and deal with it once we have won” the ‘spiv’ “brilliant, go for it”

No one in this conversation mentions the welfare of patients in case you were wondering, is it any clearer ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Nick) 15:53

There is not a great deal between us here and I can’t quite see where we can take this but I will try.

At the risk of sounding flippant which I’m not, if we were to hold politicians to their stated intentions we would have all parties saying “vote for us and we will do our best”

You see if I say “vote for me and it’s beer and cigars for everyone” and then there is a blight on the hop fields in Kent, I have to come back and say sorry but the beer promise is ‘banjaxed’ or “I will bring peace and prosperity and someone invades us” ?

Obvious examples but you might see why such a covenant would be unworkable, it would be an election a month.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Nick) 15:53

There is not a great deal between us here and I can’t quite see where we can take this but I will try.

At the risk of sounding flippant which I’m not, if we were to hold politicians to their stated intentions we would have all parties saying “vote for us and we will do our best” end of.

You see if I say “vote for me and it’s beer and cigars for everyone” and then there is a blight on the hop fields in Kent, I have to come back and say sorry but the beer promise is ‘banjaxed’ or “I will bring peace and prosperity" and someone invades us ?

Obvious examples but you might see why such a covenant would be unworkable, it would be an election a month.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


No one in this conversation mentions the welfare of patients in case you were wondering, is it any clearer ?


Ah, right! and you were privy to this conversation were you?

Or are you just making it up? In effect, telling lies?

Still, it's lucky for us that the SNP in the hunt for votes have stumbled across a coherent, workable and beneficial health policy which appeals to the people of Scotland and we managed to vote them into power before Labour made an utter pigs ear of it, not withstanding Andy Kerr's 1 hospital for the price of 2, PFI disaster in East Kilbride of course. Serendipity indeed!

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 20/08/08

If you are prepared to put up with politicians who behave like that, it says a lot about you. Ducking and diving all over the place, unable to face the truth. You and the SNP deserve each other.

The Incorrigible Plagiarist said...


If you are prepared to put up with politicians who behave like that, it says a lot about you. Ducking and diving all over the place, unable to face the truth. You and the SNP deserve each other.


The point is that they don't actually behave like that, despite what you would like us to believe with your mendacious nonsense.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 21/08/08

You have a serious problem, the fact is that that’s exactly what they did.