Is there one SNP member out there who is prepared to identify his or herself and say something critical about the 'spiv' Salmond's comments about Thatcherism. Did he speak for all SNP 'Scots.' when he said that "we Scots. were not bothered by her economic policies" he certainly didn't speak for this Scot.
In the same interview he went on to say that "having a social conscience is a Scottish thing" Is there not one of the SNP prepared to speak out against this nonsense, there is no more truth in this facile bombast than there is in saying that Scots. are mean, some are and some are not, some have a strong social conscience and some do not. Making such stupid egotistical statements is self serving arrogance from the man who can swagger while seated.
If Thatcher's economic policies didn't bother 'the spiv' too much, is anyone wondering and worrying in a concerned way like me as to what 'economic policies' would worry him ? are we destined to meet Alex 'the spiv's' version of "the Chicago school" this is an example of what happens when you elect someone who does not have a political anchor, someone who has no real values or principles.
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48 comments:
Terry,
dont you remember voting for all those lovely PFI's. Thatchers Tory policy. One which you supported and still do.
Put all our schools into the hands of the bankers and money men you so despise.
Another wee bout of amnesia. I would lie down if I were you, all your wee rants are being undermined by your own record.
Terrable thing Hubris, it comes to us all....
Where did this quote come from?
Never mind Maggie, her place in history is assured.
More importantly, is there a Labour member out there willing to stand for the Glenrothes seat?
Destiny has come a'calling Terry. Get in there, fill your wellies
What, exactly and precisely, is "a social conscience"?
I ask because a conscience always struck me as peculiarly individual sort of thing, something that is entirely personal, not something that was capable of being social.
Of course, if you tell me that it means mean fussing about the state of society, well, that's just politics.
Perhaps you should let your readers (if there any apart from me) decide for themselves.
The Iain Dale web page is on
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2008/08/alex-salmond-margaret-thatcher-truth.html
As Iain Dale (the person who interved Mr. Salmond) says:-
'Anyone who seriously thinks that Alex Salmond has turned into an admirer of Margaret Thatcher must want their heads read. As he has been quick to point out, it was Gordon Brown who invited her to Number Ten, so it’s a bit rich for Labour to make hay with his remarks!
(Anonymous) 22/08/08
I can only assume since you have not addressed anything I said on this post that you are conceding that I’m right.
(Allan) 22/08/08
Attempts at being clever / witty only work if the person or persons you are addressing have a clue what you are talking about. You are not as clever as you clearly think you are.
(Anonymous) 22/08/08
I take it that you accept what I said in my post as you haven’t mentioned it.
I don’t often have much sympathy for anonymous writers but if Salmond (the spiv) were my party leader I would be tempted to be anonymous as well.
(David Duff) 22/08/08
What difference does any of this make ? You seem to be missing my point which is that where you are born has no bearing on your character, no matter how much disingenuous nationalist claptrap Salmond (the spiv) comes out with.
(Anonymous) 18:07
I’m delighted to let my growing readership read Ian Dale’s web page, I advise them further to find out about his politics and the politics of the journal that he did the interview for.
That might give them and you, just possibly, a hint as to why they are riding to the rescue of Salmond (the spiv)
For you, who supported Firemen joining the Gay Pride March, to attack Iain Dale is despicable. You are are a hypocritical bigot.
(Anonymous) 18:10
If taking tea with Thatcher in Downing Street is the same as stating that you didn’t mind her economic policies then you need to take a good look at yourself.
Perhaps you might learn something if you take the trouble to find out about Ian Gray and the journal that he did the interview for, once you understand them and indeed why the interview was done you might get an inkling as to why they are riding to the rescue of Salmond (the spiv) I would seek anonymity too if he were my party leader.
(Anonymous) 19:42
No I’m not and you need to explain this.
"where you are born has no bearing on your character"
Ah well, now, that all depends on what you mean by "character" - another of those words with a dozen different connotations and meanings depending on the context in which it is used. For instance, a man's personality might incline him to do 'X' rather than 'Y', but if his family and/or social background is powerful and insists on 'Y', then he might well do 'Y'. Follow that thought and fairly soon one is into the old nurture/nature debate that kept us all up so late when we were young.
I only raise the point in order to nudge you in the direction of *complexity*, Councillor, which seems to be the essence of everything in the cosmos but which appears to have missed your thought processes. To paraphrase:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Counsellor,/ Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
Dont come the innocent councillor, you know Iain Dale's proclivities as well as I do.
You are a bigot.
Whatever he said at least he did not invite her to tea and promise her a state funeral.
If her economic policies were so bad why did Bliar and Brown continue with the vast majority of them ?
In fact the grusome twosome went even further than Mrs T would have dreamed of. PFI and illegal wars in other nations which have led to the slaughter of hundreds of thousand of innocent civilians mostly woman and children.
If there was any justice in the world Bliar and Brown would be sharing a jail cell.
Mrs T could come and visit them.
In today’s Sunday Mail Labour MP Tom Harris is quoted as saying that Alex Salmond should have the gratitude of the Scottish Labour Party for showing his party how to govern.
Tom Harris’s comments just confirm what the polls have been saying – that the SNP is governing well whilst Labour is facing further splits between their MPs and MSPs.
It proves that we are seeing a tale of two governments that was such a major factor in the SNP’s success in Glasgow East.
People know the SNP Government is doing a better job than London Labour.
(David Duff) 23/08/08
Is it not Salmond (the spiv) who is guilty of ignoring the complexity of people’s character when he says that a strong social conscience is a Scottish thing ? I maintain that Scots. are no different from anyone else, supporters of Scottish nationalism would have us believe that being born Scottish is somehow better than being born something else. I find that arrogant and farcical, the ’spiv’ himself is proof of how wrong he is.
(Anonymous) 23/08/08
Before this story broke I could not have told you who Ian Dale was. What did I say about Dale that makes me a bigot ? Why can’t you answer ?
(Anonymous) 23/08/08
I can’t find any reference to my post here, other than the point that you seem to equate taking tea at Downing Street with Thatcher with saying that “we (Scots.) didn’t mind her economic policies very much” SNP values on show here then !
Perhaps if Salmond was my party leader I would choose to be “anonymous” as well.
Iain Dale is probably the most respected political blogger out there. That makes your claim not to have heard of him risible.
Clearly your attack on him is disguised attack on his sexuality. This makes you a hypocritical bigot.
(Anonymous) 13:20
A comment right out of the Salmond (the spiv‘s) book of political duplicity. He referred to the decision to go with a minority government, not quite the same thing, he is right, Labour should not enter into coalitions, IMO.
If you want a view on Alex (the spiv) from someone who knows him as well if not better than anyone else, try Jim Sillars (Glasgow Herald) Sat. Aug. 23 Rd. 08 letters page.
I would choose anonymity as well if Salmond (the spiv) was my party leader.
(Anonymous) 14:04
I very rarely read political blogs and I had no idea who he was. I have asked you to explain what is was that I said which makes me a bigot and you haven’t done so.
You are a liar, or to put it another way, you are a nationalist, and I don’t blame you for hiding like a coward, it can’t be easy admitting that that guy is your party leader.
Firstly... Anonymous (23/8-18:06) thanks for providing the source of the good councillor's ire.
Secondly, its a bit rich for you to be taking pot shots at Salmond for praising Thatch, when your own party has been stealing their policies since Blair became leader, the very latest of which was the Non Doms tax scheme which "Boy George" came up with.
Of course, i should also point out the PPP scheme which i imagine that you voted for to renovate/rebuild Renfrewshire's schools at the cost to the Renfrewshire council tax payers of £195 million pounds, payable over 32 years (source: UK Partnerships website since you won't read my blog) - Norman Lamont invented PPP/PFI, and we ALL know what a genius with the economy he was!!!
Not an attempt at being clever, IS clever
(Allan) 17:58
I assume that this tired out rehashed rubbish means that you think ‘the spiv’ did OK ? You might get me to take you more seriously if you outline to me the difference between the SNP method of funding large projects and Labours, now that would be clever.
Actually, i think that Salmond has been doing OK... untill the own goal in the Iain Dale interview (and maybe some other things that I have heard as well...)
Are you defending the outlay of £194 million on newbuild/renovated schools, especially as 1)they are worth probably about 30% of that value and 2) no doubt the fee was infladed with "consultancy fees" - as is happening with the London Olympics...
Councillor
You did not, in fact, write anything to justify being called a homophobic bigot.
Then again, neither did those who suggested that the business of firemen was saving lives, not being forced to march in support of Gay Rights or any other minority group, but that is the charge you made against them.
You can't take it, so dont dish it out.
"We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."
I'm surprised that as one of the many thousands of Scots who has taken advantage of the right to buy your council house at a vastly reduced cost, you are not in agreement with Salmond.
The economy needed an overhaul, but the way Thatcher went about it was abhorrent to Scots - hence the Tory party was wiped out entirely in Scotland, but remained the dominant force in England.
The social aspect of Thatcherism was what really set Scotland against her. No reasonable person could honestly take umbrage at that view point, particularly not someone when Labour are considering entering a pact with the Tories for political expediency, whilst the Tories still worship Thatcher, Gordon Brown has expressed his unstinting admiration for her (over tea at downing street) and Blair declared himself the natural heir to Thatcher.
(Allan) 24/08/08
Salmond (the spiv) is not doing OK he is taking the p*** out of you and other gullible people.
You shouldn’t really need to ask me about PPP but, if it will shut you up the answer is no, I was opposed to the idea and still am.
What happened to my post explaining why I accused you of homophobia?
Censorship, Councillor, the last refuge of the Labour charlatan.
(Anonymous) 10:52
I haven’t censored anything, I have asked you to explain why you accused me of homophobia and you have not done so. If you write back without an explanation this discussion is over.
(Anonymous) 24/08/08
Had these bigots refused to attend a black pride march they would be racists, there is no difference, I called them homophobic bigots because that’s what they are.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 25/08/08
There is nothing here absolutely nothing which is true, not a single thing.
Salmond (the spiv) seems to have surprised a lot of you, how naïve can you get ? Having tea at Downing St. with Thatcher is the same as saying that “we Scots. Didn’t mind her economic policies” you need to try being a wee bit more dignified, you are embarrassing. Did you like ‘the spiv’s’ use of the “royal we”
Kelly, listen up.
Quoting one of your favourite authors, Orwell, 'If libery means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.'
That includes pointing out that your stock response to those who disagree with you, is always to accuse them of racism or bigotry.
Whereas my more measured response to those who disagree with me, is to label them, including you, 'Pillocks.' There again, I had the benefit of a private education.
(Anonymous) 17:30
It doesn’t seem like that ‘private education’ was much of a benefit to you at all, still a fool and his money eh.
There is nothing here absolutely nothing which is true, not a single thing.
Really? Which bits have I got wrong?
These aren't the actual words used by Salmond in the Ian Dale Interview "We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."
You don't own a former council-house?
The economy was not in need of an overhaul when Thatcher came to power?
The Tories weren't wiped out in Scotland during the Thatcher years, whilst they remained the dominant party in the UK?
Iain Gray did not raise the prospect of pact with the Tories, as reported in the Scotsman ?
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 26/08/08
I don’t understand what you are getting at with the ref. to Salmond (the spiv’s) words.
I don’t own a former council house,
The economy was not in need of an overhaul.
The Tories were not wiped out.
Iain Gray did not raise the prospect of a pact with the Tories.
I don’t understand what you are getting at with the ref. to Salmond (the spiv’s) words.
Really? I was giving the full quote in context, rather than your misleading selective quote.
I don’t own a former council house,
Apolgies for the inference that you should have taken advantage of the 'right to buy' with you being a homeowner and all. You must have been some chanter right enough to gather all those tips.
The economy was not in need of an overhaul.
Ah yes, I must have dreamt that Winter of discontent and 27% inflation of my youth.
The Tories were not wiped out.
You know what, I'm going to defer to you again. It was more of a steady decline from 1979 through to utter annihilation in 1997.
Iain Gray did not raise the prospect of a pact with the Tories.
I suppose that you're right. The Scotsman really is a shadow of its former self.
I didn't see the need to mention it, but I suppose Gordon Brown didn't really have Thatcher round for tea or express his admiration for her either.
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 12:16
The verbatim version doesn’t help the ‘spiv’ at all everyone knows what he said, I could have said Salmond ‘the spiv’s’ Thatcherite economic blunder and everyone would get it, you are clutching at straws.
Your comments on house owning make you look like an inverted snob or put another way a nationalist.
You seem determined to equate Gordon Brown having tea with Thatcher with Salmond (the spiv’s) Thatcherite economic blunder, very weak.
Was the Tory support for the SNP’s recent right wing budget a “pact” ? when the Tories on Renfrewshire Council voted with Labour against the obscene wage rises to senior officers was that a “pact” ? When the Tories formed the administration of Renfrewshire Council along with the SNP was that a pact ?
One of these 3 examples is in fact a “pact” can you spot which one ? Should you really be doing this, you seem to be a wee bit out of your depth.
Your comments on house owning make you look like an inverted snob or put another way a nationalist.
I assume the irony of that sentence is beyond you... still...
Not at all. I'm a proud homeowner myself and delighted to be able to report that my parents were able to take advantage of Thatcher's policy of 'right to buy' giving them undreamt of equity in their own home.
I'm also delighted to hear that you managed to invest in your own bricks and mortar too. It's a wonderful feeling to know that all your hard work has a concrete reward.
You seem determined to equate Gordon Brown having tea with Thatcher with Salmond (the spiv’s) Thatcherite economic blunder, very weak.
Only here, everyone else seems to think that Gordon's unstinting admiration for the Baroness and his invitation to tea was a tad more sycophantic than Salmond's comparative critique of her and the Adam Smith institute.
With Blair being the natural heir to Thatcher and the Labour party adopting so many of her policies, I just find all the feigned outrage a touch hysterical.
One of these 3 examples is in fact a “pact” can you spot which one ? Should you really be doing this, you seem to be a wee bit out of your depth.
I'm not sure Terry, but I didn't have the benefit of getting to scribble out words 50 times at the whim of a teacher. Rather, I was quoting the Scotsman - you know the opening paragraph of the link I sent which says:
"IAIN Gray, the frontrunner in the Scottish Labour leadership race, raised the prospect of a groundbreaking pact with the Conservatives yesterday as a way of taking on the Nationalists in the Scottish Parliament."
But, seeing as I deferred to you and agreed that the Scotsman wasn't what it once was, I thought you might be a tad more gracious in victory.
I know that its difficult to tell the main parties appart, what with their own cherry picking of Thatcherite policies, but even you must recognise the LIB-DEM'S as the SNP's coalition partners, you know, the former partners of your own party at Hollyrood...
(Allan) 28/08/08
I think that you will see that I wrote about pacts with the Tories which you seem to have ignored, I wonder why that is.
Did the SNP in Renfrewshire form a pact with the Tories, or did I imagine it ?
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 28/08/08
I was serious when I said do you really think you should be doing this.
Do you actually think that if you repeat the same points ad nauseam that I will suddenly say “my goodness you were right all along” I ask again, should you really still be doing this ?
I don’t mind arguing with you but It’s getting really tiresome, I can’t remember the last time you gave me pause for thought.
Do you actually think that if you repeat the same points ad nauseam that I will suddenly say “my goodness you were right all along” I ask again, should you really still be doing this ?
Comedy Genius!
(The Incorrigible Plagiarist) 17:27
Much better.
Incoragable Plagerist (28/8, 8:48pm) "I'm a proud homeowner myself... "
You can't live in Pailsey then. I too am a home owner and Renfrewshire Council have been nothing but trouble towards me, they seem to have a dislike of home-owners. They have placed Bin-shelters in the front gardens against my protests, they have concocted all manner of snide charges to try and bleed me dry, and do absolutly nothing to raise the attractiveness of the area. I say this of BOTH administrations.
I am glad that you are a proud homeowner, because i cannot possibly be with the inverse snobbery at Cotton Street.
(Allan) 29/08/08
I don’t understand why being a home owner should be a source of pride but, we are talking about “the incorrigible plagiarist” here.
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