Monday, November 05, 2007

OH, OH, ISN'T IT A LOVELY WAR !

War is hell, it provides the stage for heroism and barbarism. Today we see something unprecedented going on in Britain, that is the political exploitation of soldiers in the field. Politicians have always used the military to show off when they are on a victory parade, think Bush, Thatcher, also at events like poppy day etc. but I'm thinking of something different.

Today we see the Govt. being attacked for letting down our soldiers because of poor housing and bad or lack of equipment. Families urged on by politicians are attacking the Govt. because loved ones have been killed or injured, I don't remember this happening before, any death is a tragedy and exploiting that death is worse, the most obvious case is Mrs. Rose Gentle cynically exploited by the SSP who seem to have vanished.

Meanwhile our military leaders are caught out living high on the hog while all this goes on, a figure jumps out £9.6 million over the last two years, what have they spent it on ? better equipment ? no, better housing ? no, better training ? no.

This sum is the cost of entertainment for the military top brass, Sir Richard Dannatt 'chief of staff' when not criticising the Govt. is spending over £20,00 / yr. on dining bills, his predecessor Sir (yes they are all Sirs) Mike Jackson £22,000 a year others with their snouts in the trough are Sir Freddie Viggers and Sir Redmond Watt.

This obscenity is taking place against a backdrop of war and constant complaints from these very people about poor equipment and lack of respect for our soldiers, yes you read that right these chinless clowns are complaining about lack of respect while they guzzle their way through millions, they have the cheek to attack the Govt. for not providing enough, what parasites.

I've said it before and once again I say the British armed forces at the highest level needs to be gutted and replaced by talent, the old military families and royal officers are not up to the job they should make way for real soldiers, the British Army needs an enema.

Meanwhile down at the officers club in Whitehall it's pass the brandy and cigars Algernon old chap and switch off that awful news from Iraq, are you up for the polo tomorrow ?

110 comments:

The Ghost of the Christmas Present said...

Perhaps they can start with Tony's old flat ate Lord Falconer and turf him out on his fat arse.

£110k p.a. for doing sweet fanny adams in both the Hoc and HoL.

What a joke!

BTW, TK be careful what you wish for. The Freedom of Information Act is pretty useful for finding out what local councillors claim by way of expenses.

Anonymous said...

Terry sadly waste is everywhere from the top brass in the armed forces through to the local politico.

Mine thinks nothing of ignoring local issues and flying off to America and other places at a drop of a hat!

Rabbie said...

"Families attacking the govt...because loved ones...killed...I dont remember this happening before."

No, it hasn't happened before, but neither have we had a PM take us to war by lying before.

Buy your poppy Councillor and support those getting killed and maimed because fools and liars sent them to war.

Mark Shanks said...

I see that every posting you make on your blog is made during the hours when your supposedly "at work" in the council chambers.

On your blog It may say that the views enclosed are not the thoughts of the council, the party or anyone else but your own views BUT...

How would the council find it if it found out that your using their equipment (computers) in their council buildings to add to you daily shite on here?

Contact your IT specialist at Renfrewshire council and ask him about the proper use of council computers in your buildings.

In fact I'm emailing them to raise concerns of how elected members use their eqipment, equipment which is supposed to assist the elected member to help constituents...not to ramble piles of keech everyday while supposedly "working".

RfS said...

But Terry, I thought you considered the issue of military housing to be a non-story?

Please list the names, ranks and serial numbers of the officers of the Army you know personally to have got where they were while being talentless. Please note that Mike Jackson does not count, he is not useless, his is a shifty politician, although it is sometimes hard to tell the two apart.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

£9.6mil over two years is a lot of money to be sure. I'm certain other commentors will dig into the breakdown of this figure and give comparisons with other areas of military and government spending.

I'm more interested in the "Algernons" involved:

Gen Sir Richard Dannat Chief of General Staff
Appointed 2006 Knighted 2004

Gen Sir Mike Jackson (former) Chief of General Staff
Appointed 2003, Knighted 2004

Gen Sir Redmond Watt CINC Land Command
Appointed 2005 Knighted 2007

Lt Gen Sir Freddie Viggers Adjutant General
Appointed 2005 Knighted 2007

More than likely, these four gentlemen are all from the sort of rugger playing silver spooned background you despise Terry.

However I am more interested in another commonality between them:

All were appointed during Tony Blairs reign.

Geoff Hoon as Secretary of Defence oversaw the appointment of Jackson and the knighting of Jackson, Dannat and Watt

Dannat, Watt and Viggers were appointed under the watches of John Reid and Des Browne, whilst Des Browne was in charge of Defence when Viggers was knighted just this year (perhaps Des was distracted by his Scottish Secretary job at the time).

"I've said it before and once again I say the British armed forces at the highest level needs to be gutted and replaced by talent"

I agree totally.

Does that not mean, though, that the people who hired them and allowed them to spend so much money "frivolously" should also be brought to account?

Jackart said...

The sheer petty envy in this post dealing with men whose boots you are not fit to lick, is beyond parody. You're an entirely worthless excuse for a human being.

David Duff said...

Oddly enough, and it is, the more I think about it, excedingly odd, you may inadvertantly have stumbled on some measure of truth for a change. Alas, it is all far more complicated than your simple analysis and remedy would suggest.

For example, I was reading over the weekend, a story concerning a leaked report by an investigating group of officers trying to establish the operational facts behind the whole Iraqi debacle. It made for grim reading, particularly the inability of many middle to high ranking officers to think their way through complex problems. Apparently many in the command structure that followed the defeat of the Iraqi army had never attended staff college.

All of this is, of course, part and parcel of the British Army through the years. However, throwing out all the officers who have at least had the benefit of a good education at a public school in favour of stuffing the command full of the state 'educated', a high proportion of whom cannot read or write, hardly seems a sensible move!

Anonymous said...

But Terry old boy, it's your government thats shafting the brave people who serve in the UK armed forces....

While local councillors, MPs, MSPs and the like roll about in the expenses, wages, lavish holidays etc. etc. etc.

Let's send people such as youself out to war. Lets see how we fare then.

Serving soldier said...

Maybe you should roll into Iraq (remember that illegal war your leader started with Bush meister)with your beer belly, ugly coupon and shout from the rooftops about how the problems are all being solved under New/Old same Labour you fucking imbicile.

And of course you'll stand with your poppy come rememberance Sunday like a prick looking for the free feed afterwards.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(The Ghost of the Christmas Present) 05/11/07 - don't understand this except the expenses bit, what about these toy soldiers then, no comment ?

If you investigate my expenses you will get to understand how I am able to afford two homes,
Two cars and several foreign hols. Per year.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 05/11/07 - What about the Falklands, Northern Ireland, Afghanistan etc.

I don't buy poppies but, at least our military leaders are well fed aren't they, watching young soldiers dying is much easier when you have dined well.

RfS said...

"I don't buy poppies"

Why not?

Guthrie said...

"I don't buy poppies"

Why not?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Mark Shanks) 06/11/07 -

This is sad you are a pathetic character, These views are indeed as you say mine that's why I print them, so that the electorate are in no doubt as to where I stand, I think you will find that that, is valid, you odious little book burner you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 09:20 - "But Terry, I thought you considered the issue of military housing to be a non-story?" was I right ?
"Please list the names, ranks and serial numbers of the officers of the Army you know personally to have got where they were while being talentless." No, but I could start with the Royals.
The whole scandal seems to back up my earlier comments about these parasites doesn't it.
It's a sore one isn't it, I hope the families of military personnel dead and alive have read all about the 'Sirs' at the top..

Jackart said...

"Those Sirs at the top"

Goodness me! Don't you realise that a K awarded for service to country doesn't make you posh and being posh doesn't make you useless.

There are useless posh people and useless proles. You yourself are an excellent example of the latter.

Jackart said...

Why didn't you publish my last comment by the way?

rabbie said...

What lies were told about the Falklands, N.Ireland and Afghanistan Councillor? (Let's also include Iraq)

'Well dined Top Brass.' (paraphrase) Firstly, the military leaders you mention, as young officers, all served at the pointy end where soldiers get hurt.

Secondly, in this country, soldiers only go where their political masters send them and this government and your party lied to send them into Iraq and Afghanistan and that is why these two wars have no public support.

Rose Gentle is a mother who lost her son because Blair lied and for my money, that entitles her (and Reg Keys) to say and do whatever she wants without idiots like you screeching that she is being used.

Buy a poppy Councillor, for Fusilier Gentle.

Anonymous said...

I don't buy poppies but

There's gratitude for you. Sleep safe in your bed, Councillor, because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm. Even if you don't care to thank them for it.

Patrick

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ?) 10:57 - I have no idea who is responsible for top level military appointments or the amount of influence politicians have at this level.

I suspect that it is a 'rubber stamp' job, the same as the City and the Lords and it stinks.

The system needs an enema and that includes everyone who has an input including labour politicians.

RfS said...

So you cant name a single example of the incompetence that you say is rife.

We must therefore assume that yet again you have just made this up.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Jackart - You sound just like them

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

David Duff - Your last para. is missleading I never suggested that.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Anon - Why do you assume that people who serve in the armed forces are 'brave' that sounds like the old propaganda to me.

Expenses ? - I'm down to my last million.
Send me to war ? I could hardly be worse than these nonentities who are at the top, I'm every bit as capable as they are at eating, drinking, smoking cigars and hiding from danger.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

*** I have no idea who is responsible for top level military appointments***
I'll give you a clue. According to the MOD Website the Secretary of State For Defence is ultimately reposnsible for ALL elements of Defence and while supported by three subordinate Ministers: the Minister of State for Defence Procurement, the Minister of State for the Armed Forces and the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the Secretary of State has amongst others a specific responsibility for personnel AND finance and efficiency.

There you go, not only does Des Browne have ultimate responsibility for what and how much is spent by all branches of the armed forces, he is also the man with the power to hire and fire.

***The system needs an enema and that includes everyone who has an input including labour politicians.***
Does this mean you will be calling for Des Browne to stand down as Secretary of State For Defence?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Serving soldier) 14:23 - Did they pick you up from Oxbridge ?

You have a mouth like a clown's pocket - you're not in the diplomatic corp. Are you ?

Anyway soldier boy if you can fight like you can talk we won't have a problem will we.

I will not be at any remembrance day service and I won't be wearing any poppy, never have and never will.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 15:23 -
Poppies are sold to provide relief for those wounded in conflict in defence of their country, that is a cause for shame,

I make donations to political causes in the hope that one day cardboard patriots will not be able to hide behind charity.

Earl Haig BTW was a good example of the military hierarchy that still plagues us today.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Guthrie - See comment to RFS

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Jackart - Which one are you ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Jackart - Can't remember, maybe it was too clever, too devastating for me.

Maybe it was the language, what do you reckon ?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(rabbie) 16:35 - Rabbie - "Buy a poppy Councillor, for Fusilier Gentle." You buy one for me you've already bought the rest of the garbage talked about it.

Rose Gentle and her family have my every sympathy, people like you have my utmost contempt.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 16:36 - Patrick - You're having a laugh right ? No one is that gullible.

Read what I've said in other comments about this.

I donate to political causes and spend a lot of time and effort trying to make it possible in the future for hypocrites to hide behind charity and force them to tell the truth.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 16:42 - RFS - You can as you always do, assume what you like, meanwhile lives are being lost because people like you can't face the truth.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ?) 16:54 - "Does this mean you will be calling for Des Browne to stand down as Secretary of State For Defence?" No it doesn't what this comment means along with your others is that you are more driven by damaging labour than by any concern for soldiers in harms way, you ought to be ashamed.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

So Terry...

One one hand you are saying
"The system needs an enema and that includes everyone who has an input including labour politicians."

But when I ask if that means you will call for the resignation of the Secretary of State of Defence as he has ultimate responsibility for both military expenditure and personnel you say
"No it doesn't"

Now Terry either you are in favour of calling to task ALL of those involved in and responsible for this felonious waste of money, or you are not which is it?

***you are more driven by damaging labour than by any concern for soldiers in harms way***
Terry I think by starting this particular debate you are showing that you yourself are at odds with Labour policy.

You are opposed to senior military appointments made by the Labour Governement. You are opposed to the knighthoods handed out at the request of the Labour Governement to those same senior military appointees. You are opposed to the seemingly frivilous and possibly downright insulting spending of nearly £10mil on "entertainments" from our military budgets - which are set by, yup, you guessed it, the Labour Governement.

I am not interested in "damaging labour", I am interested right now in pointing out to you how out-of-step with and potentially injurious to Labour you yourself are being.

***you ought to be ashamed.***

Could not have put it better myself.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

PA - Another extremely lengthy way of saying nothing new.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

PA - Much better - we get everyone around the table and thrash out an agreement.

Difficult ? yes A monumental task ? yes daunting ? yes, but.

We do it because we have to, there is no alternative that I'm aware of.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

***we get everyone around the table and thrash out an agreement.***

We've been trying that since the League of Nations and look where we are.

UN humed and hawed, Lebanon became a safe haven and sponsor for neo-socialist terrorists.
UN humed and hawed, Kim Jong Il is now such a threat even the Chinese won't take him on.
UN humed and hawed, NATO took it upon themselves to liberate Kuwait.
UN humed and hawed, Al Qaeda is still as big a threat today as it was 6 years ago.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

***Another extremely lengthy way of saying nothing new.***

Because you are avoiding the issues I am raising.

Anonymous said...

"Poppies are sold to provide relief for those wounded in conflict in defence of their country, that is a cause for shame," (Sic)

On what possible grounds? I can understand why you wouldn't want to wear a poppy because of the symbolism, but why is it "shameful" to provide financial support for war veterans?

I hope this was a misprint or misunderstanding. If not, it proves my view that you are an odious, ideologically-driven, pathetic excuse for a man. Thank God you no longer sit on the police board.

Rabbie said...

You claimed lies had been told to get troops into the Falklands, N.Ireland & Afghanistan, (I added Iraq) I asked you "what lies," and answer came there none.

The question is still open, Councillor.

Another point, three out of those four conflicts began under Labour.

In fact, Blair put more of those British soldiers you so despise, in harms way than any other PM.

And yes, Cllr Kelly, I will buy an extra poppy for Fusilier Gentle and all the other lads who will not grow old, but I wont be buying it on your behalf, that would be an insult they dont deserve, you contemptible little man.

Tasha said...

Mr Kelly,
I'd suggest you get your facts straight before slagging Rose Gentle.

1. Rose Gentle sought the support of the SSP. Not the other way round. At the time Tommy Sheridan was the person you went to in Pollok for support. Things have changed on the political front, Rose's campaign has not.

2. Rose has not and never will be a
SSP supporter. In fact until your party killed her son through negilgence and lack of interest in the working classes and armed forces, Rose voted Labour. Your party betrayed her, you lost her vote. Prior to and at the time of the split of the SSP and Solidarity she addressed the first meeting of both parties and made it clear she would continue with her neutral position by supporting neither faction. It was in the press but I don't expect you bothered to read her words.

3. Rose is not thick. She is a decent hard working woman determined not to be ridden roughshod over by authority. It is telling that she has drawn support from people of all political leanings. Of the 'working class Labour party' only principled men like Tony Benn have offered her support. That you put party and career over the working class folk you're meant to represent is shameful.

Out of sheer party-political spite you could not offer a fellow anti-war campaigner one single word of comfort. Shame on you.

To end with a question

Do you think Rose is stupid enough to allow herself to be exploited because she is a woman or because she's working class? We'd all love to know what provokes your contempt.

Peggy said...

'I donate to political causes and spend a lot of time and effort trying to make it possible in the future for hypocrites to hide behind charity and force them to tell the truth.'

How will making it 'possible' for hypocrites to hide behind charity'
improve things?

Finally my late grannie always used to buy a poppy to remember her brother who was killed in WW2 and to this day I and my siblings do likewise. I don't understand why that makes us hypocrites. Obviously I never met my grannie's brother but I've no reason to believe he was a bad person and I've always thought that fighting the Nazis was as noble a cause as any. Am I wrong?

RfS said...

Ah yes, the Earl Haig argument. The last time I heard that one it was spoken by an S4 pupil to camera some 8 years ago. Just donate to the poppy appeal will you?

I mean, like it or not that is how the majority of the wounded are supported and whether you like it or not they need the support. Your refusal "on moral grounds" and then to say you donate instead to political causes is quite wrong. While the "political" route takes its time getting there (if it ever will) these people need help now. And you making political capital out of it is despicable.

Do you consider all army officers to be incompetent? What about in the Navy? The Marines? How about officers in the RAF, many of who are fast jet pilots. Are they incompetent?

Yet again Terry you attempt to pass another one of your "articles of faith" off as some kind of well thought out political argument but even the most cursory investigation shows it to be nothing more than petty hatred and envy.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

PA - The alternative is everyone grabbing what weapons they can, the bigger the better by fair means or foul.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

PA - No I'm not. you are going over the same ground repeatedly because you don't know where to turn,

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Anon - Any country which relies on charity to look after it's war wounded should be ashamed. That, clearly would include you.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

***The alternative is everyone grabbing what weapons they can, the bigger the better by fair means or foul.***

Nope, the alternative is redrafting the UN charter, beefing it up and giving the UN more powers. How much more effective would UNPROFOR be if they had the authority to ENFORCE ceasefires rather than hiding under their blue berets unable to do anything until someone shoots them?

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

***PA - No I'm not. you are going over the same ground repeatedly because you don't know where to turn***

Here (in concise form) is what you have avoided addressing:

You object to (paraphrasing) Entitled Algernons like Dannat, Viggers and Watt filling top military jobs.
These men were appointed by the Secretary of State For Defence and knighted under a Labour governement, ergo, you are at odds with Labour policy in this regard

You object to the near £10mil spent over two years by these men on "dining bills" and "entertainment".
This money could not have spent unless it was budgeted for. Military spending budgets are controlled by the Secretary of State For Defence, therefore the money could not have been spent without the knowledge and tacit approval of the Labour government.
Again this appears to put you at odds with Labour policy in this regard.

If as you state the "system needs an enema and that includes everyone who has an input including labour politicians", then at the very least that means that Des Browne as Serectary of State For Defence should be called upon to resign for allowing this to happen.

It does seem there is quite a lot goes on in your party that you do not approve of, doesn't it?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Falklands, Belgrano lies - Ireland, military collusion with terrorists, Afghanistan, lies about the Russians who fought the Taliban we funded the Mujahedeen who became Al Qaeda
Iraq invasion 1991 to save Kuwait, lies which led us to where we are now.
All 4 under the Tories. I don't despise British Soldiers.
I despise those who use them like you, badge kissers, flag wavers, cardboard patriots, you are well bedded into 'the last resort' aren't you.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Tasha - Nat & Lil -
1/ I believe that the SSP jumped on this as a way of damaging the Govt. And for no other reason, they are parasites and a hindrance to a better society.
2/ I have never suggested anywhere that Rose Gentle was a member of any party. The rest of this point is a classic example of why the SSP jumped on the case, just read it again and hang your head in shame.
3/ I have expressed my support and sympathy for Mrs. Gentle and anyone else who dies in this conflict, I agree with Tony Benn, the rest of this again shows exactly what you are up to.
The end of your comment is risible you sound like Wolfie Smith, a laughing stock.

I have every respect and sympathy for Rose Gentle and her family, for you lot I have nothing but contempt. You are nothing more than a bunch of ambulance chasers.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Peggy) 06/11/07 - It might help them to tell the truth about wars and why they are fought, why it's ordinary working people who die in them.

You are not wrong about fighting Nazis but you might be a wee bit disingenuous, I'm not calling you or your Grannie a hypocrite, I think the whole thing has become a military rallying call and is used by war mongers as such not the ordinary people who die in them.

It is hypocritical to heap praise and glory on those who have been wounded for their country and then expect them to rely on charity.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 13:57 - "I mean, like it or not that is how the majority of the wounded are supported and whether you like it or not they need the support." Yes and it will never change until someone grasps the nettle, Injured soldiers relying on charity is obscene.
"Do you consider all army officers to be incompetent? What about in the Navy? The Marines? How about officers in the RAF, many of who are fast jet pilots. Are they incompetent?" Rhetorical right ?
I don't agree with your last para. Earl Haig was portrayed brilliantly by Stephen Fry in Blackadder with just the right element of truth about him and the other generals.

Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ? said...

***It is hypocritical to heap praise and glory on those who have been wounded for their country and then expect them to rely on charity.***

Correct those who have been wounded for their country should be looked after by the Government that put them in harms way.

Since the government does not look after it's own men and women they are forced to rely on charity

***Poppies are sold to provide relief for those wounded in conflict in defence of their country, that is a cause for shame***

Another instance where you are at odds with the policy of your party leadership?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Political Athesist aka Mutt aka ?) 14:16 -

A very strange post indeed do you think anyone will spot the fact that I've been saying this all along.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

PA - As I said we've done this already.

Plenty of argument / debate / disagreement in the labour Party always has been, in the SNP by contrast there seems to be constant harmony.

I'm happy where I am.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

PA - Read my previous answer.

Rabbie said...

"Lies...Falklands, N.Ireland, Afghanistan & Iraq?"

Belgrano was sailing away from the Task Force - True, but ships have a steering thingummy that lets them turn round, therefore she was a threat(Remember, Argentina was the aggressor)

Ireland, military collusion with terrorists? I know you're not referring to the slaughter of the innocents at Enniskillen or Omagh because these were carried out by IRA Freedom Fighters, so please explain.

Afghanistan? You're struggling with this one, aren't you? You've changed tack. Initially you were not talking about Afghanistan past and the Russian invasion, but Afghanistan now, when British troops are involved, put there by a Labour Government so Blair could play Macho Man.

Iraq? Another one you've changed tack on, switching from Second Iraq (Labours War) to the First Iraq (Thatcher) and here, even by your demented standards, you've excelled yourself.

First Iraq - Saddam invaded Kuwait, threatening both Middle East security and international oil supplies. An international coalition,including Arab nations, threw him out and then left. It was a war with clearly defined objectives and regime change in Iraq was not one of them.

Second Iraq was Blairs War and I amongst others, supported it because my Prime Minister told me that Saddam had WMD that could reach British targets in 45 minutes. This was a lie and a party with any pretension to honour would have sacked him. The reason for the invasion was regime change and the result is shambles.

Are you also going to deny that Blair has fought more wars in his ten years than any other PM? Or would that be playing too fast and loose with the actualite for even your conscience?

RfS said...

No terry I would like an answer please. Are all officers in the armed forces corrupt and incompetent?

RfS said...

I would trust a charity to look after the soldiers better than central government. I mean after all government looks after the NHS and that is clean, efficient and good value for money. Oh. Wait.

It is not obscene to have charities do this work, it is efficient.

But instead you want to use the soldiers to raise taxes on the population, the default position of the thief. And once the old soldiers are looked after out of direct taxation what about the RSPCA? The NSPCC? Cancer Research? Any other charity that looks after welfare?

I have donated to the poppy appeal online as I do every year and I urge everyone else to do the same because the Earl Haig fund will always do a better job than government.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 07/11/07 -

Do you really expect me to argue with you and allow you to pick out a period which you think helps your position and ignore all the other occasions where wars / disputes have taken place ?

Why should I let you away with that piece of dishonesty ? A nice little ten year space where I can attack Blair and Labour, it's just not on you are a cheat, and not very subtle.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - I thought I had already answered this silly question with a no.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - You are clearly more concerned with your own bizarre political philosophy than you are with the welfare of injured soldiers.

RfS said...

"You are clearly more concerned with your own bizarre political philosophy than you are with the welfare of injured soldiers."

Oh the irony.

I am donating my own money to look after the injured soldiers. You, by your own admission do nothing to help them preferring to donate to political causes.

RfS said...

For the record you had not answered the question, you had ducked it.

So if the Navy and Air Force officers are not corrupt and incompetent then are you advocating that all army officers are dismissed and replaced with officers from the other branches?

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - Political causes which will one day restore dignity to all and remove the obscenity of people relying on charity.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 13:35 - You think I ducked this ? Clutching at straws eh ?

"So if the Navy and Air Force officers are not corrupt and incompetent" I didn't say that.
"are you advocating that all army officers are dismissed and replaced with officers from the other branches?" No.

RfS said...

So all officers in the whole of the armed forces are corrupt and incompetent then?

Which political causes is it that you donate to that will "restore the soldiers dignity" then? (NB your Labour party membership fee does not count as you have to do that to have any hope of re-election)

Anonymous said...

What specific political causes, other than the Labour party, do you donate to and how, specifically - specifically, not in broad platitudes - do they/will they do to improve the welfare of retired and serving soldiers?

I also think you owe "Tasha" an apology. I read her comments and (I could be wrong) got the impression that she was a friend of Ms Gentle, and not a member of any political party. How dare you treat anyone, especially a lady, with such contempt?

Anonymous said...

RFS - "I would trust a charity to look after the soldiers better than central government."

I agree! After all, if you're looking for a better example of the fundamental failings of government, you're on the right website.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 14:21 - "So all officers in the whole of the armed forces are corrupt and incompetent then?" No.

Donations are private - You might feel the need to advertise what a great and generous guy you are but I find that crass.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 14:42 -

"What specific political causes," my business, but it's politics which will some day remove the need for charity.

Either you haven't read Tasha's comments or you are an idiot.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

anon - you're happy for injured soldiers to rely on charity.

RfS said...

Terry, on numerous occasions in numerous threads you have stated that all army officers are corrupt. we now hear that you would not support other branch officers taking over. It is no use saying "no" now, it just comes across like you have been caught. Have the courage of your convictions for once.

"Donations are private "

yes, but yet again we find that when the chips are down you are a hypocrite. You are not even donating to political reform organisations are you? And you call the officers corrupt.

I could list all the charities that I donate to but I don't. I also find that telling people who I support allows them to better understand me.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(RfS) 16:51 - "on numerous occasions in numerous threads you have stated that all army officers are corrupt" - Wrong.
"You are not even donating to political reform organisations are you?" Not that I'm aware of.
"I could list all the charities that I donate to but I don't" - You give your money away as discreetly as a waiter falling downstairs with a full tray of glasses, you need people to know that don't you.

Anonymous said...

I am now convinced that you do not make any political donations of the kind that you bragged about. I personally do not disclose charitable/political donations that I make - but I also wouldn't brag about various "causes" I donated to, only to go quiet when people ask me to be specific.

I won't dignify the last part of your comment with an answer.

Anonymous said...

1. Could you provide some evidence that Tasha is a member of the SSP/Solidarity/the axe grinding politico you implied, and not just a member of the public?

2. I graduated top of my class at the FE college I went to and am not an idiot. You, on the other hand, well...

Tasha said...

Indeed I do know Rose, I'm not a close friend but I knew Gordon and I know her and the family a little.

Like my parents I always voted Labour. I cannot tell you how angry cheated and gullible I feel at what this government has done and what I voted for.

They have no right to call themselves the party of the working classes any more.

They represent nothing but leeching off the public, cheap political bigotry and lies.

Terry himself is just the most visible example of the rot.

Kaliani said...

RE: The Poppy Appeal

Glasgow Citizens Advice Bureaux are currently involved in an initiative with The Poppy Fund to ensure that all veterans are receiving their full possible benefit entitlement, have free access to legal, consumer ,housing advice/signposting etc.

Many people do not realise that that Citizens Advice is a charity. When you buy a Poppy not only are you supporting veterans but you help the underfunded Glasgow CABx.

If you know any veterans please let them know and ask them to get in touch with a local CAB on
0844 848 9600

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 08/11/07- I am equally convinced that making donations of any kind is alien to you, that's why you are uncomfortable with my political donations.

Do you feel better now that you have told us what a generous guy you are ?

Anonymous said...

No, Terry, you chump - as it happens, I do not tell anyone about any donations I give to charity - not even my own family. If you must know, this is because my motivation for giving is a religious one, and the Bible tells us not to "sound the cornicerns (trumpets) before us as we give donations in the temples" (Matthew, 6). The last thing I would do is brag about my own generosity. You, on the other hand, proudly announce that you "give money to various political causes", and then go quiet when you are asked to name them.

Anonymous said...

No, Terry, you chump - as it happens, I do not tell anyone about any donations I give to charity - not even my own family. If you must know, this is because my motivation for giving is a religious one, and the Bible says not to "sound the cornicerns (trumpets) before us as we give donations in the temples" (Matthew, 6). The last thing I would do is brag about my own generosity. You, on the other hand, proudly announce that you "give money to various political causes", and then go quiet when you are asked to name them.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Tasha) 08/11/07
You can call me anything you want it's a pretty sterile response and represents nothing more than your own prejudices.

I just happen to think that this woman and her family have been used for political ends by people like you and it's time she was given a break.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

08/11/07 - People can make up their own minds about charities, my opinion is clear I would rather strive for a society where charities are not necessary.

Some devious people will try to twist the above statement to seem like I am insulting those who give to or volunteer with charities that is not the case, I have great respect for them.
I just happen to think that working and giving to charities is allowing the state to get away with not doing it's job.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 12:22 - "as it happens, I do not tell anyone about any donations I give to charity" I suppose we should be grateful for this example of your reticence then, does the bible say anything about hypocrisy anywhere ?

Rumpole said...

Tell me Terry, since you hate charity so much, do you go around stealing pennies from charity boxes on your way to your nearest McDonald's for yet another Triple-whopper chesseburger? People who do that are real B'Stards.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rumpole) 13:55 - I can get the cheeseburger delivered to my yacht with the wealth I enjoy through politics.

RfS said...

""You are not even donating to political reform organisations are you?" Not that I'm aware of."

And

"I make donations to political causes in the hope that one day cardboard patriots will not be able to hide behind charity."

You cannot be both.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

RFS - ?

Rumpole said...

I can get the cheeseburger delivered to my yacht with the wealth I enjoy through politics.

I'll take that as an another admission of financal corruption in a public office by yourself Terry.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Rumpole - You don't know the half of it.

Tasha said...

'I just happen to think that this woman and her family have been used for political ends by people like you and it's time she was given a break.'

Terry out her in the real world when something terrible happens to someone we know we try and help in what ever way they ask us.

I have no idea how you conduct yourself in your personal life. Maybe you exploit your friends personal tradgedies for political gain but I can assure you I do not.

In any case I am not a member of a political party. I have no intention of standing for election so I'm at a loss as to what I have to gain politically.

You, on the other hand by portraying Rose and her family as the ignorant dupes of your political opponents have plenty to gain.

Finally that you have not said one word about the outcome of the inquest into Gordon's death speaks volumes. I take it the avoidable death of soldiers is a matter of indifference to you.

Anonymous said...

What is remotely hypocritical about deliberately NOT telling people about money that you have given to charity? On the other hand, it might well be considered hypocritical to BOAST about giving money to "political causes" which clearly don't exist!

Incidentally, how can you possibly not understand RfS' last post?

Anonymous said...

"Rumpole - you don't know the half of it"

Enjoying brandy and cigars around the fireplace at the Labour club, councillor?"

Anonymous said...

Actually, Terry, you know what? Don't but a poppy if you don't want to. You're free to choose. That's the whole bloody point.

Patrick

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Tasha) 09/11/07 - "You, on the other hand by portraying Rose and her family as the ignorant dupes of your political opponents have plenty to gain." A nice choice of words, she is no match for the ruthless, devious self publicist that is Tommy Sheridan, that is not an insult, she was on his platform again at yet another re-launch, then called Blair a liar and Gordon Brown a coward.

This whole business started by the SSP attacking the Govt. And using this young man's death, it now turns out that it was his superior officers to blame but it's still Blair and Brown who are getting it, she is being used.

Lots of young soldiers are being used and exploited, it was ever thus, what does she do now.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 09/11/07 -

Have you tasted the quality of the 'brandy and cigars' at the Labour Club ? I'm used to much better.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 10/11/07 -

Patrick - I believe that soldiers injured fighting for their country should not need to rely on charity, I find that hypocritical and shameful.

Rabbie said...

Mrs Gentle called 'Blair a liar and Brown a coward.'

So do most of the population and Mrs Gentle has more reason than most.

'his death (Fusilier Gentle).....fault of superior officers.'

Utter hogwash - the blame lies with the organ grinder, not the monkeys.

If Blair hadn't lied us into the war, or Brown and the Labour party had found the guts to oppose him, then that young man and all the others would not have died in Iraq.

You're a member of the party, you tell us you opposed the war and that others nodded it through 'with a heavy heart.'

Cllr, if you and the 'heavy hearted' ones had acted, Blair would have been forced to resign.

This disgrace belongs to a PM who saw himself as a hero, a Chancellor too frightened to rock the boat and a Labour Party without a conscience.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Rabbie) 15:39-

"Utter hogwash - the blame lies with the organ grinder, not the monkeys." Yes Blair should have popped over to Iraq incognito and checked if the Army were using that equipment right ?

Blair didn't lie us into war.

You are a disgrace, when are you going to stop exploiting this young man's death and his mother's sorrow, have you no shame ?

Rabbie said...

Cllr
Blair was not kicked out by a Labour party that had found a conscience, he was kicked out by a Labour party that realised his lies about Iraq could cost them the next election.

That's my take on the situation - what's yours?

Anonymous said...

(in response to Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:36:00 PM)

Sorry, Terry, I am a capitalist pig-dog and work for a living.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

Anon - many 'capitalist pig dogs' claim to work for a living and they don't know what work is.

Anonymous said...

Yes - and well done to them!

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 15/11/07

Absolutely - as that great 'capitalist pig' hero/legend Arthur Daly once said to his minder, "Terence, hitting old ladies over the head with a half brick is a crime, everything else is just business"

A capitalist believes that the greatest crime of all is to 'get caught'

Anonymous said...

And as a famous economist called Milton Friedman once said, wealth creation is in and of itself good for society.

Or would you rather we all just wore sackcloths and lived on the hillsides? Even then, you and your ilk would probably complain that some of the comrades had bigger sackcloths than others.

Anonymous said...

"A capitalist believes that the greatest crime of all is to 'get caught'"

No...some, without a doubt, do, but most play by the rules and do actually have a conscience. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with wealth creation.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 16/11/07 The late unlamented old mad Milton was famous for getting dictators to put his economic theories in to practice no matter how many got killed or tortured in the process.

I've nothing against wealth creation but, wealth distribution concerns me greatly.

Cllr Terry Kelly said...

(Anonymous) 18/11/07

I disagree, capitalism is inherently corrupt, it shows humans at their worst, it survives on sharp practice and crime.

I'm OK with wealth creation but concerned with it's distribution,

"What is robbing a bank compared to funding a bank " (Brecht)