tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post6392271344041299472..comments2023-05-03T08:42:38.592+00:00Comments on Councillor Terry Kelly: HOLDEN CAULFIELD: DEFIANT TO THE BITTER END AND - ZINN NO MORE.Cllr Terry Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-72794143334128978182010-02-13T14:27:29.592+00:002010-02-13T14:27:29.592+00:00(Anonymous) 12/02/10
I don’t think it’s necessary ...(Anonymous) 12/02/10<br />I don’t think it’s necessary to provide sources in this case.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-21594815781867520362010-02-12T13:39:14.960+00:002010-02-12T13:39:14.960+00:00Provide sources, you lying Toerag!
Is that short ...Provide sources, you lying Toerag!<br /><br />Is that short enough?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-64212982214422352342010-02-09T09:53:40.632+00:002010-02-09T09:53:40.632+00:00(bbcc1234aa) 08/02/10
"no Marx & Engels ...(bbcc1234aa) 08/02/10<br /><br />"no Marx & Engels = no progress."<br />What utter nonsense<br /><br />Oh no it’s not!<br /><br />“I assure you they are serious requests”<br /><br />Oh no they are not!<br /><br />“you said "No Nixon = no Pol Pot"<br /><br />Oh no I didn’t!<br /><br />“Is that short enough?”<br /><br />No it’s overlong pompous and repetitive.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-17817638133912781192010-02-08T20:43:05.627+00:002010-02-08T20:43:05.627+00:00Councillor Kelly said:
"no Marx & Engels...Councillor Kelly said:<br /><br />"no Marx & Engels = no progress."<br /><br />What utter nonsense. Unless of course you class the murder of 150,000,000 progress <br /><br /><br />Councillor Kelly said:<br /><br />"Yes but I don’t regard this as a serious question"<br /><br />I assure you they are serious requests - perhaps you think everyone who makes such outlandish claims should do so without providing their source should they be asked. Your hero Chomsky would probably agree with you. <br /><br />During the Cambodian genocide at a time Khmer Rouge bloodlust was at its highest Chomsky, having rejected evidence to the contrary from such sources as the testimonies of thousands of Cambodian refugees, wrote: <br /><br />"executions have numbered at most in the thousands; that these were localized in areas of limited Khmer Rouge influence and unusual peasant discontent, where brutal revenge killings were aggravated by the threat of starvation"<br /><br />In his defence of Pol Pot not only did Chomsky deny the extent of the executions being carried out by the Khmer Rouge (over one million executed) but also his denial was made while those executions were still taking place.<br /><br />You didn't say the US (Nixon) shared some responsibility you said "No Nixon = no Pol Pot" - in your quest to blame America for all the worlds ills you ignore the fact that it was North Vietnam who first took the war into Cambodia and it was North Vietnam who were almost single handedly responsible for the creation of the Khmer Rouge.<br /><br /><br />As you now know my intent is serious perhaps you can provide the source (as you said you can) for your claim that: "American bombing of Cambodia killed 800,000 people" and a reference to those who have also stated that "No Nixon = no Pol Pot" <br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />Is that short enough?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05443106604602614006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-46973741306764800532010-02-08T12:32:19.055+00:002010-02-08T12:32:19.055+00:00(bbcc1234aa) 08/02/10
Yes but I’m not going to: se...(bbcc1234aa) 08/02/10<br />Yes but I’m not going to: see previous answer.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-28562772170226621102010-02-08T12:30:15.881+00:002010-02-08T12:30:15.881+00:00(bbcc1234aa) 08/02/10
“Can you provide your source...(bbcc1234aa) 08/02/10<br />“Can you provide your source for this claim please”<br /><br />Yes but I don’t regard this as a serious question.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-79820303488802809502010-02-08T01:05:24.829+00:002010-02-08T01:05:24.829+00:00Councillor Terry Kelly said:
"American bombi...Councillor Terry Kelly said:<br /><br />"American bombing of Cambodia which killed 800,000 people" <br /><br />Can you also provide your source for this claim.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05443106604602614006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-27947477901353293492010-02-08T00:53:03.212+00:002010-02-08T00:53:03.212+00:00Councillor Terry Kelly said:
"if America had...Councillor Terry Kelly said:<br /><br />"if America had not dropped more bombs on Cambodia than were dropped in the second world war by all sides"<br /><br />Can you provide your source for this claim please.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05443106604602614006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-48236483784921640342010-02-06T15:20:32.739+00:002010-02-06T15:20:32.739+00:00(bbcc1234aa) 06/02/10
You are saying that the Amer...(bbcc1234aa) 06/02/10<br />You are saying that the American bombing of Cambodia which killed 800,000 people had nothing to do with the rise of the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot: I say it did: it is a common enough hypothesis notably argued by Noam Chomsky. <br /><br />Looking at the rest of the nonsense that you have written here it’s apparent that I will have to be much clearer and not make the assumption that you are able to grasp the general point so: with that in mind I will simplify it for you as follows :- no Marx & Engels = no progress. <br /><br />If you are going to persist in writing write you had better show a little discipline and make it much shorter: there is absolutely nothing enlightening: interesting or unpredictable in anything you have sent so far.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-11341157835365421172010-02-06T15:02:43.679+00:002010-02-06T15:02:43.679+00:00(Anonymous) 05/02/10
Jimmy’s phrase was just a gen...(Anonymous) 05/02/10<br />Jimmy’s phrase was just a general insult I’ve probably said things as bad myself: he was not referring to Nixon and Pol Pot he was referring to the anonymous critic of the late great Howard Zinn.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-42358125977146249862010-02-06T12:30:48.680+00:002010-02-06T12:30:48.680+00:00(Anonymous) 05/02/10
Anyone who does not think tha...(Anonymous) 05/02/10<br />Anyone who does not think that the American bombing of Cambodia had nothing to do with what happened under Pol Pot is an idiot is what I say.! <br /><br />Anyone who thinks that the Falklands is comparable to the American involvement in Cambodia and Vietnam is an even bigger idiot is what I say!Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-26646249598317430972010-02-06T00:22:49.268+00:002010-02-06T00:22:49.268+00:00Councillor Kelly, You say Nixon killed hundreds of...Councillor Kelly, You say Nixon killed hundreds of thousands of Cambodians and then along came Pol Pot and killed another 3 million; and you think there is a connection? I could see the logic in that if the three million slaughtered by Pol Pot had been Americans.<br /><br />Councillor Kelly, for the third time, will you give me the source of your claim that Nixon killed hundreds of thousands of Cambodian people - and while you're at it inform us of those others who postulate 'No Nixon no Pol Pot'.<br /><br />Terry Kelly said:<br /><br />"No Marx & Engels – no female emancipation – no votes" <br /><br /><br />Mr Kelly, I think women managed to emancipate themseleves by their own endeavours and would <br /><br />have done so without assistance from Marx and Engles - Your comment is not only chauvinistic <br /><br />it is an insult to Hannah Woolley, Mary Wollstonecraft, Hedvig Charlotta Nordenflycht, <br /><br />Catherine Macaulay and in fact every woman who fought (and are still fighting today in some <br /><br />societies) for equality.<br /><br />In Soviet Russia almost every woman was forced to work, they were discriminated against in <br /><br />the work place, they were paid substantially less than men and few held positions of prestige particularly within the Communist Party. In the home Soviet women faired no better they were still expected to do all the housework, manage finances, see to their man's needs and take sole responsibility for their children. There was also a large increase in prostitution. So much for you Marx and Engles.<br /><br /><br /><br />"No Marx & Engels – No Soviet Union and victory to Hitler"<br /> <br />You are of course assuming that the Russian Empire would not have played an equally <br /><br />significant role in defeating Hitler. However no America and the Soviet Bloc would have expanded throughout Europe - And I'd now be sitting here in the dark waiting for the knock-on-the-door from the state secret police for daring to express opinions that differ from those of Comrade Kelly.<br /><br /> <br />"No Marx & Engels no NHS"<br /><br /><br />Hmmmm the origins of the NHS owe more to Jesus & Tolstoy than to Marx & Engels. No Jesus no <br /><br />Tolstoy no Fellowship of the New Life no Fabian Society (and probably no Labour Party) no <br /><br />Beveridge. <br />I don't think Bismarck - the first to implement Health Insurance, workers accident <br /><br />compensation, disability Insurance and a Retirement Pension - was influenced by Marx & <br /><br />Engels.<br /><br />"No Marx & Engels women and children continue to work down mines and 18 hour days in <br /><br />factories – no workers rights"<br /><br />So, for example, you are saying that Marx and Engles were responsible for the Health and <br /><br />Morals of Apprenticies act - 1802 - prohibiting employers in the textile industry from <br /><br />forcing children to work more than a 12 hour day? <br /><br /><br />Terry Kelly said:<br /><br />"Do you think the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot just suddenly appeared? You’re not a keen student <br /><br />of US involvement in SE Asia right enough are you."<br /><br />No I don't think the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot just suddenly appeared, that is what you are claiming.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05443106604602614006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-46200157130119667492010-02-05T23:31:43.560+00:002010-02-05T23:31:43.560+00:00I think Jimmy is taking the piss. Unless of course...I think Jimmy is taking the piss. Unless of course you agree that people who take a different point of view are lower life forms. Personally I see nothing wrong with loathing Nixon and Pol Pot. <br />Can't understand why that makes me a chimpanzee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-55743170890758984202010-02-05T20:44:09.030+00:002010-02-05T20:44:09.030+00:00So, really,the 'No Nixon, no POl Pot' quot...So, really,the 'No Nixon, no POl Pot' quote, is attributable solely to Councillor Kelly!<br /><br />Wonderful, the man who didn't know where or what the Falklands were in 1982,is now an expert on US foreign policy in the early '70's!!<br /><br />Kelly for Foreign Sec and watch out Hilary Clinton, is what I say!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-42837944336658813202010-02-05T12:46:58.074+00:002010-02-05T12:46:58.074+00:00Jimmy: what can I say? you read Chomsky and Howard...Jimmy: what can I say? you read Chomsky and Howard Zinn: I too am suitably impressed.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-47976816479111021542010-02-05T12:42:25.500+00:002010-02-05T12:42:25.500+00:00Councillor Kelly said: "Nixon a good guy for ...Councillor Kelly said: "Nixon a good guy for *bombing Cambodia and killing hundreds of thousands of Cambodian people*"<br /><br />I would have thought that the context that that statement was made as a reply to “Byeck” would have been rather obvious: in fact so bloody obvious that I can only conclude that you don’t do irony! <br /><br />No Marx & Engels – No Soviet Union and victory to Hitler – no female emancipation – no votes – women and children continue to work down mines and 18 hour days in factories – no workers rights – no trade unions – no Labour Party – no NHS – no education for all etc. etc. <br /><br />Do you think the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot just suddenly appeared? You’re not a keen student of US involvement in SE Asia right enough are you. <br /><br />Nixon bombed the Cambodians back to the stone age and killed hundreds of thousands of people: and then along came Pol Pot, is it possible there might have been a connection?Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-37459661261627572112010-02-05T12:24:45.018+00:002010-02-05T12:24:45.018+00:00(Anonymous) 04/02/10
Why do I have to give you a r...(Anonymous) 04/02/10<br />Why do I have to give you a reference? Nixon dropped more bombs on Cambodia than was dropped by all sides in the Second World War thus creating the situation in where the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot flourished; no Nixon no Pol Pot, no mass deaths and destruction no bombs no Pol Pot, tackle that: do you think Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge appeared from nowhere: did they just kind of happen! are you the self declared keen student of the US IN S east Asia? keen student?Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-61227888965630918682010-02-05T01:58:06.121+00:002010-02-05T01:58:06.121+00:00Interesting to see the comments here.
I had no i...Interesting to see the comments here. <br /><br />I had no idea that you Terry were a Howard Zinn reader, or a Chomsky reader. I must say, I am suitably impressed<br /><br />I wouldn't worry about the unnamed baboons and their comments.<br /><br />Libellous comments about the Khmer Rouge, or Shining Path or other murderers are always thrown around by lower primates anytime someone tries to have a sensible conversation about the US imperial system.<br /><br />Half of Z Mags writers, including Chomsky, have all suffered at the hands of these stupid creatures<br /><br />Zinn was a collossus, he talked about ordinary people and saw history from their perspective in a kind of archaeology of popular social movements, uncovering, digging up, unearthing truths and insights like precious artifacts.<br /><br />He was passionately anti-war and looked at conventional wisdom with a clear eyed analysis that can only be described as heroic and a lot of people wouldn't be able to make sense of this century, this new kind of empire, without Howard Zinn.<br /><br />I note that the worst comments against Zinn, were posted anonymously. How cowardly, what a disgrace. <br /><br />Some people have no shame at all.<br /><br />I suspect that the person is too embarrassed to reveal themselvesJimmy Kerr, West End, Paisley.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-22351600149438722592010-02-04T19:56:54.152+00:002010-02-04T19:56:54.152+00:00'No Nixon' no Pol Pot.'
Terry, you...'No Nixon' no Pol Pot.'<br /><br />Terry, you're Being less than helpful on this.<br /><br />Will you please reference the quote/article for me?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-33604780825915523152010-02-04T19:18:47.470+00:002010-02-04T19:18:47.470+00:00Councillor Kelly said: "Nixon a good guy for ...Councillor Kelly said: "Nixon a good guy for *bombing Cambodia and killing hundreds of thousands of Cambodian people*"<br /><br />Can you provide your source for that claim.<br /><br /><br />Councillor Kelly said: "some argue that no Nixon would have meant no Pol Pot and there is a certain logic to that"<br /><br />Some argue that - as Marxist ideology inexorably leads to genocide, mass crimes against humanity and murderous Communist tyranny - no Marx and Engles would have meant no Pol Pot and no Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Lenin, Castro et al and there is more than just a certain logic to that. <br /><br /><br />As I'm not a keen student of US involvement in SE Asia and obviously don't have your superior knowkedge of the subject can you point me in the direction of those who postulate 'No Nixon, no Pol Pot.' Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Of course you could always carry on ignoring or avoiding every question that is asked of you and confirm the suspicions most readers of this blog have that you are nothing more than a bumbling blatherskiteUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05443106604602614006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-79844267291287450132010-02-04T11:43:48.203+00:002010-02-04T11:43:48.203+00:00(Anonymous) 03/02/10
“as a keen student of US invo...(Anonymous) 03/02/10<br />“as a keen student of US involvement in SE Asia”<br />If you have never come across ‘no Nixon no Pol Pot’ you are clearly not a keen student of US involvement in SE Asia.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-81322849977315144082010-02-03T20:35:20.154+00:002010-02-03T20:35:20.154+00:00Terry, can you point me in the direction of those ...Terry, can you point me in the direction of those who postulate 'No Nixon, no Pol Pot.'<br /><br />It's an argument I haven't heard before and as a keen student of US involvement in SE Asia, would like to study it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-52859059923751114582010-02-03T19:33:24.147+00:002010-02-03T19:33:24.147+00:00(Anonymous) 17:34
“I find anyone who supported eit...(Anonymous) 17:34<br />“I find anyone who supported either of them deeply suspect”<br />Me too but I don’t let that stop me from trying to find out why such things happen: some argue that no Nixon would have meant no Pol Pot and there is a certain logic to that.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-54929261292896829942010-02-03T17:34:42.678+00:002010-02-03T17:34:42.678+00:00"Now let me see Pol Pot was a bad guy for kil..."Now let me see Pol Pot was a bad guy for killing all those people right? was Nixon a good guy for bombing Cambodia and killing hundreds of thousands of Cambodian people or does he get away with it?"<br /><br />Nixon was a loathsome, excuse for a human being, so was Pol Pot. I find anyone who supported either of them deeply suspect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35177951.post-12486658995181858152010-02-03T17:27:29.937+00:002010-02-03T17:27:29.937+00:00(Byeck) 15:57
No I didn’t but it’s quite obvious t...(Byeck) 15:57<br />No I didn’t but it’s quite obvious that Pol Pot and Cambodia is another subject that you know nothing about.Cllr Terry Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03285923851619030726noreply@blogger.com